How Many Resurrections In Revelation?

[Darrell C]

God gave Adam and Eve the right to make a choice, He said don't eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for in the day you do you shall surely die. They chose to eat well Adam did, Eve was deceived, and they died, temporally and their offspring were born Spiritually dead.

They, like all men after them, are under command of obedience. Men have a right to choose to eat but what they eat restricts them. That a man has right to eat a Jeep doesn't justify him doing so. Maxx Klinger, like Adam...learned the hard way. God gave His Word in various ways so we wouldn't have to.


God bless.

 

[kyredneck]

....Explain why anyone should embrace your Catholic Doctrine and ignore the Biblical writers?

God bless.

Despite all the attempts of our Catholic brethren to obscure ....

God bless.

What a crock of dung your charade 'I'm no dispy' and 'I've never heard of Scofield' and 'you're Catholic' along with your sanctimonious 'God Bless'.

28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation. Heb 9
37 For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10

'You people' make the writer out to be a liar. According to you it is a very long while and He has indeed tarried, for THOUSANDS of years.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John; who bare witness of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, even of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1:1-3

I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20

'You people' make Him out to be a liar. When He said 'shortly come to pass', and, 'I come quickly', and, 'the time is at hand', you say no, it is THOUSANDS of years.

 

[OldRegular]

What a crock of dung your charade 'I'm no dispy' and 'I've never heard of Scofield' and 'you're Catholic' along with your sanctimonious 'God Bless'.

28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation. Heb 9
37 For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10

'You people' make the writer out to be a liar. According to you it is a very long while and He has indeed tarried, for THOUSANDS of years.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John; who bare witness of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, even of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1:1-3

I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20

'You people' make Him out to be a liar. When He said 'shortly come to pass', and, 'I come quickly', and, 'the time is at hand', you say no, it is THOUSANDS of years.

You hillbilly. Hush your mouth and let these two youngins be. They be playing good together havin such fun so you hush up your face now fore I send you back to BB {that be Bloody Breathitt not Baptist Board cause you ready there}!

 

[revmwc]

What a crock of dung your charade 'I'm no dispy' and 'I've never heard of Scofield' and 'you're Catholic' along with your sanctimonious 'God Bless'.

28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation. Heb 9
37 For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10

'You people' make the writer out to be a liar. According to you it is a very long while and He has indeed tarried, for THOUSANDS of years.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John; who bare witness of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, even of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1:1-3

I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20

'You people' make Him out to be a liar. When He said 'shortly come to pass', and, 'I come quickly', and, 'the time is at hand', you say no, it is THOUSANDS of years.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 

[DHK]

What a crock of dung your charade 'I'm no dispy' and 'I've never heard of Scofield' and 'you're Catholic' along with your sanctimonious 'God Bless'.

28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation. Heb 9
37 For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10

'You people' make the writer out to be a liar. According to you it is a very long while and He has indeed tarried, for THOUSANDS of years.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John; who bare witness of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, even of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1:1-3

I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20

'You people' make Him out to be a liar. When He said 'shortly come to pass', and, 'I come quickly', and, 'the time is at hand', you say no, it is THOUSANDS of years.

"Quickly" also has the meaning of "suddenly," as was further described in scripture "as a thief in the night," which we all need to be prepared for.
Where in history did Christ come suddenly, as a thief in the night, and yet at the same time triumphantly and visibly to all?
Give a date and time please.
Since the book was written ca.98 A.D. it would have to be after the close of the first century.
If you can't back your assertion up then you would be the one perpetuating a lie, wouldn't you?

 

[percho]

What a crock of dung your charade 'I'm no dispy' and 'I've never heard of Scofield' and 'you're Catholic' along with your sanctimonious 'God Bless'.

28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation. Heb 9
37 For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10

'You people' make the writer out to be a liar. According to you it is a very long while and He has indeed tarried, for THOUSANDS of years.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John; who bare witness of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, even of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1:1-3

I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20

'You people' make Him out to be a liar. When He said 'shortly come to pass', and, 'I come quickly', and, 'the time is at hand', you say no, it is THOUSANDS of years.

Excuse me, but isn't this verse; But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8 written relative to these verses? Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 2 Peter 3:3,4

Is Peter calling the writer/writers of Hebrews liars?

 

[Darrell C]

What a crock of dung your charade 'I'm no dispy' and 'I've never heard of Scofield' and 'you're Catholic' along with your sanctimonious 'God Bless'.

I'm not a dispy. I'm a Christian.

I don't know Scofield, though I've heard him mentioned.

And your doctrine is indisputably Catholic.

Don't classify people if you don't want to be classified...my popish friend.

And my prayer is always that God bless, not sure why you or your popish fellow would object that. As I said to him, usually only atheists resort to attacking how I post...rather than what I post.

But this is no mystery seeing you refuse to address the questions that reveal your Catholic views which can be traced to your ancient popish fellows.

28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation. Heb 9
37 For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10

As I said before, this shows the Writer of Hebrews anticipating Christ's return.

You were asked to show where the undeniably physical return depicted in ALL prophecy is either negated or fulfilled. I certainly hope the earlier post doesn't stand in your heart and mind as an answer.

'You people' make the writer out to be a liar. According to you He has indeed tarried, for THOUSANDS of years.

And that's what certain Catholic Doctrines do...they obscure basic understanding.

The absence of tarrying has nothing to do with the times or the season, but just as the Flood indicate His swiftness in judgement, so do we. It seems the Lord tarried as the Ark was prepared. So we balance the Lords teaching and see the expression deals with the actual event.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24:36-39&version=KJV


But because the premise of your doctrine is wrong, so too is your conclusion and application.

But don't feel bad, Catholic Doctrine has its hooks in millions. You are not alone. However, if you want to be freed from the Catholic Doctrine Buffet...

...start reading the Books of the Bible. Instead of books about the Bible.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John; who bare witness of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, even of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1:1-3

I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11



And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20

Funny but Paul also spoke of the rewards of believers. So not sure how you think the swift arrival precludes the past two millennia or negates a literal return of Christ after the Tribulation.

That is what Revelation details.

'You people' make Him out to be a liar. When He said 'shortly come to pass', and, 'I come quickly', and, 'the time is at hand', you say no, He meant THOUSANDS of years.

No, we simply take the Lord, and His Word as it is given, and acknowledge it is not for us to know the times or the season of when the Kingdom will be restored to Israel, which has been placed in the Father's hand.

Not the Kingdom Christ has established on an eternal basis, but the very Kingdom prophesied and promised.

It is not those who acknowwlede the immutability of God calling Him a liar.

In fact, it is we who know what we believe that have asked you and your popish friend to address the OP. And have requested an end to the name calling that has so disrupted this thread. Even a moderator has asked asked and the contemptuous spirit you are of has refused even their authority..

Now, will you address the OP and the responses to your Catholic views or will you continue as you have?

Simple question: how do you negate the other two resurrections Revelation describes, which can in no way be viewed as the same resurrection?

If you want your chain yanked...keep rattling it, lol.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Excuse me, but isn't this verse; But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8 written relative to these verses? Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 2 Peter 3:3,4

Is Peter calling the writer/writers of Hebrews liars?

No on all counts. No Biblical writer ever conflicts with the revealed doctrine of God.

Well except for Peter, that is.



Now think what I might mean before calling me a critic, lol. Or a heretic.

Peter's statement simply means that time is not an element that impacts God's timetable, it is not a code we interpret statements found in other Books by.

We only modify numeric value if the text directs us to, such as, for example, the Lord equating how long He would remain physically dead.

Revelation 20 states there will be one thousand years after Christ's return which is also described conditionally in Old Testament Prophecy. We have not seen that fulfilled yet.

But back to topic. Have we seen the resurrections of Revelation fulfilled?

The Catholic view wants to play loose with the word of God and decide what is convenient to present as fulfilled.

Those thousand years are not as one thousand years, they are not like unto one thousand years, they are one thousand years.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

You hillbilly. Hush your mouth and let these two youngins be. They be playing good together havin such fun so you hush up your face now fore I send you back to BB {that be Bloody Breathitt not Baptist Board cause you ready there}!

You have no authority. You despise authority. You mock because of this.

All would do well, beginning with you, to question where you are attempting to send people...

My guess? Where your doctrine was at its height with a stranglehold on truth...

...the dark age.

God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

From: JOHN NELSON DARBY AND THE RAPTURE by Dr. Thomas Ice
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-JohnNelsonDarbyandth.pdf

Darby did not just develop an ecclesiology that was isolated from interaction with other areas of theology. Rather, he clearly set it against God’s plan for Israel. In one of his convalescence statements he said:

Isaiah xxxii. it was that taught me about the new dispensation. I saw there would be a Davidic reign, and did not know whether the church might not be removed before forty years’ time. At that time I was ill with my knee. It gave me peace to see what the church was. I saw that I, poor, wretched, and sinful J. N. D., knowing too much yet not enough about myself, was left behind, and let go, but I was united to Christ in heaven.​

Thus, Darby sees the church as distinct from Israel, since there would be a Davidic reign for Israel in the millennium, God’s earthly people. On the other hand, Darby saw that he was positionally united with Christ in heaven, a heavenly destiny.

Dispensationalists today see such a distinction as their sine qua non. Leading dispensational spokesman Charles Ryrie says, “A dispensationalist keeps Israel and the church distinct.” Ryrie explains:

This is probably the most basic theological test of whether or not a person is a dispensationalist, and it is undoubtedly the most practical and conclusive. The one who fails to distinguish Israel and the church consistently will inevitably not hold to dispensational distinctions; and one who does will.​

Non-dispensational, covenant theologians recognize this essential about dispensationalists as noted by Michael Williams.

The Darbyist church/Israel distinction constitutes the one great organizing principle of classical dispensationalism. The metaphysical and historical distinction between the church and Israel is the axle upon which the theology of Darby, Scofield, and Chafer rides. It is the one great absolutely necessary or essential element of the system. The Darbyist metaphysical distinction between Israel and the church is the sine qua non of classical dispensational theology.​

Whether dispensationalists or non-dispensationalists, all recognize for dispensationalism the importance of the distinction between God’s rule for Israel and His rule for the church.

From the time of his convalescence, Darby developed a theology that taught and supported a dispensational, premillennial, pretribulationism. Essentially Darby came to understand that his place or position was the same as Christ, which is in heaven. Thus, the church is a heavenly people, not an earthly people like the established church, in which he was a clergyman. Juxtaposed to the heavenly and spiritual church was Israel, who are composed of a spiritual, ethnic, and national people on earth who have a future in God’s plan after the church age.

Darby came to understand that the church could be taken to heaven at any moment without signs preceding that event, in what would later be known as the pretribulational rapture of the church. Darby’s realization of a change in dispensations laid the groundwork for the development of dispensationalism, since he saw a distinction between God’s plan for the church and His plan for Israel. By this time, Darby also developed a pessimistic view of the visible church, Christendom, and came to believe that it was in utter ruins.

By January 1828, February at the latest, John Nelson Darby had not only come to an understanding of the idea of pretribulationism, but, he had also come to see other components, along with a rationale to support this view. This does not mean that his ideas relating to pretribulationism came out of the womb fully developed along with no internal contradictions. There was still developmental work to be done. Stunt surmises: “In fact for some years after his experience of deliverance there was something decidedly ambivalent about some of the positions adopted by Darby.” It would take at least another decade for Darby to develop full confidence in his new views and their implications. The basics were in place by early 1828. This was too early to have received seminal influence from others regarding things Darby strongly contends he came to understand from personal Bible study alone during his Dublin convalescence.

I have posted the above on numerous occasions, proof that Darby is the father of the pre-trib rapture and classic dispensationalism. I understand that many do not like to stare truth in the face but there it is. You do with it as you please but don't lecture or threaten me because you cannot stand the truth! Those who are interested can go to the link I presented above.

 

[Darrell C]

From: JOHN NELSON DARBY AND THE RAPTURE by Dr. Thomas Ice
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-JohnNelsonDarbyandth.pdf



I have posted the above on numerous occasions, proof that Darby is the father of the pre-trib rapture and classic dispensationalism. I understand that many do not like to stare truth in the face but there it is. You do with it as you please but don't lecture or threaten me because you cannot stand the truth! Those who are interested can go to the link I presented above.

Yes, everyone knows of your secret infatuation with Darby.

What they want to know is why you have adopted Catholic Doctrine instead of embracing what Scripture teaches.

I think they've realized that's what restrains you from adressing the OP.


God bless.

 

[revmwc]

From: JOHN NELSON DARBY AND THE RAPTURE by Dr. Thomas Ice
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-JohnNelsonDarbyandth.pdf



I have posted the above on numerous occasions, proof that Darby is the father of the pre-trib rapture and classic dispensationalism. I understand that many do not like to stare truth in the face but there it is. You do with it as you please but don't lecture or threaten me because you cannot stand the truth! Those who are interested can go to the link I presented above.

There are signs of Christ return for His church and we are seeing them today.

Matthew 24 is clear on that, 5 "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places."

The end of time for man is not yet, the church is taken out at this point though. We see these signs toady as we have through many years.

For then the Tribulation starts,

8 "All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

This is all seen in Revelation 6-19, We see Revelation 12:5 "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

Israel the woman brought forth a man child, Jesus who was to rule with a rod of iron"

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

she fled into the wilderness just as verse 16 states, 1260 days she will be fed that is 3 1/2 years that is the Great Tribulation i.e. the second part of the Tribulation.

We see chapter 16 verse 10 "And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain," the fifth seal brings the darkness of verse 29 just a the first half of the Tribulation ends and the second begins darkness comes just as Jesus prophesied in Matthew 24. Right down the line Revelation follows Matthews 24.

 

[kyredneck]

"Quickly" also has the meaning of "suddenly," as was further described in scripture "as a thief in the night," which we all need to be prepared for.
Where in history did Christ come suddenly, as a thief in the night, and yet at the same time triumphantly and visibly to all?

He came into His kingdom before that generation passed away. You're told that repeatedly in the Book.

Since the book was written ca.98 A.D. it would have to be after the close of the first century.

Wrong. Late date theory is a house of cards when brought under scrutiny; to quote Robert Young:

"It was written in Patmos about A.D.68, whither John had been banished by Domitius Nero, as stated in the title of the Syriac version of the Book; and with this concurs the express statement of Irenaeus (A.D.175), who says it happened in the reign of Domitianou, ie., Domitius (Nero). Sulpicius Severus, Orosius, &c., stupidly mistaking Domitianou for Domitianikos, supposed Irenaeus to refer to Domitian, A.D. 95, and most succeeding writers have fallen into the same blunder. The internal testimony is wholly in favor of the earlier date." (Concise Critical Comments on the Holy Bible, by Robert Young.”

In other words Young says it's a 'stupid mistake' by Sulpicius Severus and others that has resulted in A DOMINO EFFECT of bad information concerning the dating of Revelation down through the centuries.

Also, there is compelling internal evidence within the book itself that much of it is concerned with the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem:

And I saw another sign in heaven....and them that come off victorious from the beast... they sing the song of Moses the servant of God....Rev 15.1-3

The song of Moses is being sang in heaven in the 15th chapter of Revelation, which is very significant when you consider that the song of Moses had only one purpose and time, and that was to 'testify before Israel as a witness against them' when they had utterly corrupted themselves and evil had befallen them in the 'latter days':

16 And Jehovah said unto Moses.....this people will rise up, and play the harlot ...and break my covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day.....and many evils and troubles shall come upon them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?
18 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evil which they shall have wrought.....
19 Now therefore write ye this song for you...... that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
21....when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness.....
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
30 And Moses spake in the ears of all the assembly of Israel the words of this song, until they were finished. Dt 31

The Song of Moses is quoted from by both Christ and the Apostles in reference to 'that evil generation' of Jews of their day in the gospels and the epistles.

And concerning the external evidence that the book was written prior to 70 AD, there is just as much or more that points to the earlier date:

http://www.eschatology.org/index.ph...-revelation-guest-article&catid=40&Itemid=211

 

[revmwc]

He came into His kingdom before that generation passed away. You're told that repeatedly in the Book.



Wrong. Late date theory is a house of cards when brought under scrutiny; to quote Robert Young:

"It was written in Patmos about A.D.68, whither John had been banished by Domitius Nero, as stated in the title of the Syriac version of the Book; and with this concurs the express statement of Irenaeus (A.D.175), who says it happened in the reign of Domitianou, ie., Domitius (Nero). Sulpicius Severus, Orosius, &c., stupidly mistaking Domitianou for Domitianikos, supposed Irenaeus to refer to Domitian, A.D. 95, and most succeeding writers have fallen into the same blunder. The internal testimony is wholly in favor of the earlier date." (Concise Critical Comments on the Holy Bible, by Robert Young.”

In other words Young says it's a 'stupid mistake' by Sulpicius Severus and others that has resulted in A DOMINO EFFECT of bad information concerning the dating of Revelation down through the centuries.

Also, there is compelling internal evidence within the book itself that much of it is concerned with the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem:

And I saw another sign in heaven....and them that come off victorious from the beast... they sing the song of Moses the servant of God....Rev 15.1-3

The song of Moses is being sang in heaven in the 15th chapter of Revelation, which is very significant when you consider that the song of Moses had only one purpose and time, and that was to 'testify before Israel as a witness against them' when they had utterly corrupted themselves and evil had befallen them in the 'latter days':

16 And Jehovah said unto Moses.....this people will rise up, and play the harlot ...and break my covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day.....and many evils and troubles shall come upon them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?
18 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evil which they shall have wrought.....
19 Now therefore write ye this song for you...... that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
21....when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness.....
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
30 And Moses spake in the ears of all the assembly of Israel the words of this song, until they were finished. Dt 31

The Song of Moses is quoted from by both Christ and the Apostles in reference to 'that evil generation' of Jews of their day in the gospels and the epistles.

And concerning the external evidence that the book was written prior to 70 AD, there is just as much or more that points to the earlier date:

http://www.eschatology.org/index.ph...t pass until they had seen it then and there.

 

[OldRegular]

There are signs of Christ return for His church and we are seeing them today.

Matthew 24 is clear on that, 5 "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places."

The end of time for man is not yet, the church is taken out at this point though. We see these signs toady as we have through many years.

For then the Tribulation starts,

8 "All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Actually the verses you quote from Matthew 24 are about the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD just as Jesus Christ promised in Matthew 24:1, 2.

This is all seen in Revelation 6-19, We see Revelation 12:5 "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

Israel the woman brought forth a man child, Jesus who was to rule with a rod of iron"

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

she fled into the wilderness just as verse 16 states, 1260 days she will be fed that is 3 1/2 years that is the Great Tribulation i.e. the second part of the Tribulation.

We see chapter 16 verse 10 "And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain," the fifth seal brings the darkness of verse 29 just a the first half of the Tribulation ends and the second begins darkness comes just as Jesus prophesied in Matthew 24. Right down the line Revelation follows Matthews 24.

So you agree that the Book of Revelation is not chronological since you are talking about the birth of Jesus Christ from Revelation 12. But if the woman fled into the wilderness after she gave birth to Jesus Christ she has been there much longer than 3.5 years, closer to 2000 years!

 

[revmwc]

He came into His kingdom before that generation passed away. You're told that repeatedly in the Book.



Wrong. Late date theory is a house of cards when brought under scrutiny; to quote Robert Young:

"It was written in Patmos about A.D.68, whither John had been banished by Domitius Nero, as stated in the title of the Syriac version of the Book; and with this concurs the express statement of Irenaeus (A.D.175), who says it happened in the reign of Domitianou, ie., Domitius (Nero). Sulpicius Severus, Orosius, &c., stupidly mistaking Domitianou for Domitianikos, supposed Irenaeus to refer to Domitian, A.D. 95, and most succeeding writers have fallen into the same blunder. The internal testimony is wholly in favor of the earlier date." (Concise Critical Comments on the Holy Bible, by Robert Young.”

In other words Young says it's a 'stupid mistake' by Sulpicius Severus and others that has resulted in A DOMINO EFFECT of bad information concerning the dating of Revelation down through the centuries.

Also, there is compelling internal evidence within the book itself that much of it is concerned with the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem:

And I saw another sign in heaven....and them that come off victorious from the beast... they sing the song of Moses the servant of God....Rev 15.1-3

The song of Moses is being sang in heaven in the 15th chapter of Revelation, which is very significant when you consider that the song of Moses had only one purpose and time, and that was to 'testify before Israel as a witness against them' when they had utterly corrupted themselves and evil had befallen them in the 'latter days':

16 And Jehovah said unto Moses.....this people will rise up, and play the harlot ...and break my covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day.....and many evils and troubles shall come upon them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?
18 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evil which they shall have wrought.....
19 Now therefore write ye this song for you...... that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
21....when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness.....
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
30 And Moses spake in the ears of all the assembly of Israel the words of this song, until they were finished. Dt 31

The Song of Moses is quoted from by both Christ and the Apostles in reference to 'that evil generation' of Jews of their day in the gospels and the epistles.

And concerning the external evidence that the book was written prior to 70 AD, there is just as much or more that points to the earlier date:

http://www.eschatology.org/index.ph...-revelation-guest-article&catid=40&Itemid=211

That is odd that Revelation would be written in A.D. 68 when John was not exiled to the isle of Patmos until Domitian came to power. Domitian ruled from A.D. 81-96 that is what extra biblical tradition tells us. Do you have something that proves it was not Domitian as most historians show?

John came back to the Church at Ephesus in A.D. 97 according to tradition and it is said he had to be carried into the church to preach. Now wouldn't you think that He would have written something to let us know Christ had returned he was after. But you see the Revelation was the final revelation. Now it is also believed that the book of Jude was written in the A.D. 90's and he too says nothing about his brother Jesus having returned.

So where is this A.D. 68 date coming from?

 

[revmwc]

Actually the verses you quote from Matthew 24 are about the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD just as Jesus Christ promised in Matthew 24:1, 2.




So you agree that the Book of Revelation is not chronological since you are talking about the birth of Jesus Christ from Revelation 12. But if the woman fled into the wilderness after she gave birth to Jesus Christ she has been there much longer than 3.5 years, closer to 2000 years!

No I don't agree, it shows event that were to come, has a pause, and then the revelation of it occurring just as it was prophesied. No it says the woman had a man child and He was taken to heaven. Simply showing Israel would flee while the Beast ruled for 3 1/2 years the last part of the tribulation. Fulling Jesus prophecy of Matthew 24. Easy to understand if you let the Holy Spirit guide you through it.

 

[kyredneck]

they had a glimpse of His Kingdom at the Mount of Transfiguration and that generation didn't pass until they had seen it then and there.

Lol, that's about as lame explanation as they come.

3 And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when these things are all about to be accomplished?
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13

7 And they asked him, saying, Teacher, when therefore shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when these things are about to come to pass?
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

 

[revmwc]

Actually the verses you quote from Matthew 24 are about the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD just as Jesus Christ promised in Matthew 24:1, 2.

there is where you eschatology is off. Again a chronology of events. Christ made short term prophecies as well as long term. The short term is He would suffer and die, He would be raised, then He said the Temple would be destroyed. Short term prophecy must be fulfilled to prove that the Prophet is true. He gave long term prophecy following the destruction of the Temple. That has not yet been fulfilled, but it will, because the short term was.

 

[revmwc]

Lol, that's about as lame explanation as they come.

3 And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when these things are all about to be accomplished?
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13

7 And they asked him, saying, Teacher, when therefore shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when these things are about to come to pass?
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

So you consider the writer Mark lame, Mark 9:1-3, 1"And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them."

What happended six days after He said "some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power" they saw Jesus Transfigured, fulfilling that prophecy by Him. He was seen in His Glorified, transfigured body as He will appear in the Kingdom. Sad that you scoff at Mark.

Do you scoff at the apostle Matthew, Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matthew 17:1-2, 1"And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light."

He said they would and they did see the Kingdom. Both scriptures fairly clear.