Featured John Nelson Darby vs Baptist Confessions of Faith

I believe the Bible but I don't believe you so post some Scripture to prove what you say!

 

I have often prayed for my "kinsmen in the flesh" as we all should. That doesn't mean GOD is going to set up a special earthly kingdom for them!

I would also note that frequently in my old age I find myself praying for the entire world.

 

It is to be expected that Paul would pray for the ethnic Jews. But Paul also makes a distinction between elect Israel and National Israel just as GOD does.

Moses prayed for the Israelites after they built the Golden Calf:

Exodus 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

Did GOD honor that prayer. NO!

GOD said: Exodus 32:33. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

 

You can't be serious! That is a new low y1!

 

Read the edited post!

 

The point is Moses prayed for Israel; Paul prayed for Israel; their kinsmen after the flesh, but God says of national or ethnic Israel:

Romans 10:19-21
19. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Matthew Mt 23:29-31, 34, 37
29. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30. And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

3. Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

37. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

And then HE says:

Acts 2:22-24
22. Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23. Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24. Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

 

I believe Scripture shows that the only people who came back out of captivity were the Jews and the Levites and certain others from Benjamin and perhaps Simeon who were part of the Southern Kingdom. Whether Paul had in mind the twelve tribes, assuming they still existed, is unknown. Certainly the Jews, the tribe of Judah, still existed. It is my opinion that the only reason they came back out of captivity was because the Messiah was to come from the tribe of Judah. Nevertheless, Paul has taught that:

Romans 9:1-8
1. I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2. That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4. Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5. Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The Apostles prayer for "his kinsmen according to the flesh" is similar to that of Moses. But please notice that GOD through the Apostle Paul says: For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

What does GOD mean. I say he means exactly what he says, there are two Israels, national or ethnic Israel and spiritual Israel. I say spiritual Israel because Paul tells us elsewhere:

Romans 11:1-8
1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3. Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

The true Israel, the Spiritual Israel, are the Elect and Paul speaking for GOD tells us: I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

GOD has not cast aside those who are the elect. As proof GOD gives the example of Elijah when he was having a pity party crying: Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

And GOID's answer was, "Stop whining Elijah": I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Now some people want to say GOD meant that there were exactly believing Israelites in the Northern kingdom. I think the number seven simply means HE had an exact number of elect and the number 1000 simply means he had a lot of Spiritual Israelites in the Northern Kingdom.

Paul addresses further the issue of spiritual Jews or spiritual Israel when he states: Romans 2:28, 29
28. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Again the Apostle Paul is drawing a very distinct difference between the spiritual {Elect} Jew or spiritual {Elect} Israelite and the national or ethnic Jew/Israelite.

There is no doubt that Paul was concerned about his "kinsmen after the flesh" and well he should be. Are you concerned about any unsaved members of your family, DHK, any "kinsmen after the flesh". I am and I pray continually for them as they come to mind but I rejoice as did the Apostle Paul that the major part of my immediate family, parents, children, grandchildren, inlaws, and an enormous number of my extended family, grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins, nieces, nephews, will be awaiting me when GOD takes me home. Nevertheless I will continue to pray for those who I believe are among the unsaved even though I just as firmly believe as did Paul that GOD will bring each of HIS Elect to salvation. That is exactly what Paul meant when he wrote: Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

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Certainly Paul would pray for his "kinsmen after the flesh". And it is very likely that some of those kinsmen were saved. In fact I know one, a wonderful young woman who married a nephew. She was one of the "kinsmen" after the flesh who was amongst the Elect. She died about 4 years ago at age 39 after an 8 year battle with melanoma. Her testimony was that she wanted her funeral sermon to be the Gospel hoping it would benefit her mother and sister!

GOD taught Paul about Election but GOD did not reveal the Elect to Paul. I have yet to see anyone walking around with the name Elect stenciled on their forehead.

There will be no removal of the "parenthesis Church" prior to any great seven year tribulation because the Church for which Jesus Christ died is not a "parenthesis"! It is the chaste Bride of Jesus Christ whom ethnic Israel conspired with Rome to slaughter on the Roman Cross. That Bride of Jesus Christ includes all the redeemed of all time because other than through the shed blood of Jesus Christ there is no redemption! You can believe that or not!

 

y1, can't you even identify a passage of Scripture correctly. That is pathetic.

Zechariah
In that day a fountain will be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for impurity. 2"It will come about in that day," declares the LORD of hosts, "that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they will no longer be remembered; and I will also remove the prophets and the unclean spirit from the land.…[/QUOTE]

??????????????I love Scripture but what is your point?

 

2 points!

peter stated that there would have come the Kingdom to earth if isreal would have received jesus as the Messiah, but that when they do as a nation and be reborn overnight, then the Kingdom will come!

Also, that isreal/national one, with jewish peoples, will have the entire nation reborn under messiah, and don't think that happened first time he came![/QUOTE]

Nonsense!

 

Read it again!