Elect Israel and The Church the same !

[savedbymercy]

The Gathering together of the Church !

Eph 1:9-11

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

This gathering together was also predicted by and was the Hope of the OT Church, for example hear Jacob Gen 49:10

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Shiloh is Christ, and His coming was in the fulness of time Gal 4:4

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son[Shiloh], made of a woman, made under the law,

And by His Peace Making Cross, He gathers the People under One Head.

The word Shiloh from Gen 49:10 means:

I.he whose it is, that which belongs to him, tranquillity,

Some hebrew scholars render it to mean the peaceable one, peace maker, Isa 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

And this Peace gathers together in One all the People of God Eph 2:14-19

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

This is what Jacob foresaw centuries before Gen 49:10 by Shiloh, the Head of the Church !

 

[Revmitchell]

Wow! So I can take every promise made to Israel and count it as my own.

 

[Darrell C]

The Gathering together of the Church !

Eph 1:9-11

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

This gathering together was also predicted by and was the Hope of the OT Church, for example hear Jacob Gen 49:10

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Shiloh is Christ, and His coming was in the fulness of time Gal 4:4

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son[Shiloh], made of a woman, made under the law,

And by His Peace Making Cross, He gathers the People under One Head.

The word Shiloh from Gen 49:10 means:

I.he whose it is, that which belongs to him, tranquillity,

Some hebrew scholars render it to mean the peaceable one, peace maker, Isa 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

And this Peace gathers together in One all the People of God Eph 2:14-19

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

This is what Jacob foresaw centuries before Gen 49:10 by Shiloh, the Head of the Church !

So would that mean that there is a difference between Israel prior to Pentecost and Israel made one through faith in Christ with Gentiles?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Wow! So I can take every promise made to Israel and count it as my own.

You can if you look at the cumulative results of the Promises of God, which were not just for Israel but for all the families of the earth.

Paul makes it clear the Covenant of Law was temporary, and did not negate former promises. While we still distinguish, as Scripture does, the difference between Jew and Gentile in the sense of heritage, God's Redemptive Plan has, eternally speaking, left nobody out based on race. Israel was the Old Testament picture of the Church, though not the Church, just as Levitical sacrifice was the picture of Atonement, though not the Atonement.


God bless.

 

[savedbymercy]

Abraham and Church have the same Inheritance !

Remember when it is written Heb 11:8

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Now most religionists think this inheritance was of this earth, a plot of land in the middle east, but they are dead wrong, this inheritance was and is Heavenly, Heb 11:16

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

It was a Heavenly Country, a Heavenly Inheritance.

And it was and is the same Inheritance as written of here Eph 1:11

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Also its the same Inheritance spoken of here 1 Pet 1:4

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Remember the Inheritance Promised to Abraham Heb 11:8 was Heavenly Heb 11:16 !

Its the same Inheritance spoken of here Gal 3:18

For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Also here Col 1:12

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

 

[savedbymercy]

So would that mean that there is a difference between Israel prior to Pentecost and Israel made one through faith in Christ with Gentiles?


God bless.

Did you understand the points I made with scripture ? Please review them with me to see if you understood my reasoning behind them, though you may not agree !

 

[savedbymercy]

Wow! So I can take every promise made to Israel and count it as my own.

Did you understand the points I made with scripture ? Please review them with me to see if you understood my reasoning behind them, though you may not agree !

 

[PreachTony]

I know we all feel like this sometimes:

But does anyone else ever feel like this?

 

[Revmitchell]

Did you understand the points I made with scripture ? Please review them with me to see if you understood my reasoning behind them, though you may not agree !

No one is going to do that with you. Ever.

 

[OldRegular]

The Gathering together of the Church !

Eph 1:9-11

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

This gathering together was also predicted by and was the Hope of the OT Church, for example hear Jacob Gen 49:10

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Shiloh is Christ, and His coming was in the fulness of time Gal 4:4

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son[Shiloh], made of a woman, made under the law,

And by His Peace Making Cross, He gathers the People under One Head.

The word Shiloh from Gen 49:10 means:

I.he whose it is, that which belongs to him, tranquillity,

Some hebrew scholars render it to mean the peaceable one, peace maker, Isa 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

And this Peace gathers together in One all the People of God Eph 2:14-19

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

This is what Jacob foresaw centuries before Gen 49:10 by Shiloh, the Head of the Church !

On another thread { http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=99431&page=10} Isaac Watts was touted by pre-trib-dispensationalists as supporting their doctrine {http://scottaniol.com/wp-content/uploads/Aniol2.pdf}. Turns out Watts was not as the following remarks show:

Watts believed as noted:

He argues that God has rejected Israel as his people because of their sin and has replaced them with the Christian church:

God has fulfilled his word, and cut them off according to his threatenings, from his relation to him as their God, nor are they any longer his people; they have left their names for a curse to his chosen people, that is, the gospel church made up chiefly of Gentiles, who esteem the name of a Jew a reproach or a curse, and God has called his people, by another name, that is, christians, as he threatened so plainly by Isaiah, his prophet, chapter lxv. 15.​

​

And then:

The church, according to Watts, inherits all of the promises God made to Israel, albeit in spiritual form:

 

[kyredneck]

But does anyone else ever feel like this?

Lol, PT, it's when you start to develop a snarl that it's time to take a sabbatical.

 

[OldRegular]

Lol, PT, it's when you start to develop a snarl that it's time to take a sabbatical.

***************************************************************************************************
Actually I think this epitomizes some of the people on this BB:



But some are snarling. I simply look at that child, compare him to certain, and :laugh::laugh:

 

[savedbymercy]

No one is going to do that with you. Ever.

Then you are not here to discuss or debate my points!

 

[Darrell C]

On another thread { http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=99431&page=10} Isaac Watts was touted by pre-trib-dispensationalists as supporting their doctrine {http://scottaniol.com/wp-content/uploads/Aniol2.pdf}. Turns out Watts was not as the following remarks show:

Thanks for the spam. Like mine fried...


God bless.

 

[Revmitchell]

Then you are not here to discuss or debate my points!

Many have tried to with you. It is always a failure since you obfuscate with your insistance on going back over your points to make sure we understand. No one does that and it is an absurd request.

 

[Darrell C]

Did you understand the points I made with scripture ? Please review them with me to see if you understood my reasoning behind them, though you may not agree !

I'll be happy to, but if you don't mind, I'd like to focus first on this:

The Gathering together of the Church !

Eph 1:9-11

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

This gathering together was also predicted by and was the Hope of the OT Church, for example hear Jacob Gen 49:10

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Now you propose those in the Old Testament are the "Old Testament Church," but both quoted passages deny that, the first showing that it is in Christ that...


Eph 1:9-11

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

...which denies this took place under Old Testament Economies, and the second...


Gen 49:10

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.


So have I mistaken your proposal? Or are you saying the Church existed in the Old Testament?

Please clarify and then answer my question:

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
So would that mean that there is a difference between Israel prior to Pentecost and Israel made one through faith in Christ with Gentiles?

The reason I ask for clarification is that you present opposing views.

You go on to say...

Shiloh is Christ, and His coming was in the fulness of time Gal 4:4

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son[Shiloh], made of a woman, made under the law,

And by His Peace Making Cross, He gathers the People under One Head.

The word Shiloh from Gen 49:10 means:

I.he whose it is, that which belongs to him, tranquillity,

Some hebrew scholars render it to mean the peaceable one, peace maker, Isa 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

And this Peace gathers together in One all the People of God Eph 2:14-19

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

This is what Jacob foresaw centuries before Gen 49:10 by Shiloh, the Head of the Church !

...which makes it clear your proposals need to be clarified.

If they weren't one then, and that it awaited Christ's Coming, how are they the Church?

Furthermore, we can see plainly that it was not only those of Israel that were counted as faithful.

So again...

So would that mean that there is a difference between Israel prior to Pentecost and Israel made one through faith in Christ with Gentiles?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Many have tried to with you. It is always a failure since you obfuscate with your insistance on going back over your points to make sure we understand. No one does that and it is an absurd request.

Step back, take a breath of fresh air...




God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

On another thread { http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=99431&page=10} Isaac Watts was touted by pre-trib-dispensationalists as supporting their doctrine {http://scottaniol.com/wp-content/uploads/Aniol2.pdf}. Turns out Watts was not as the following remarks show:

Hey, you forgot to mention Darby!

Very disappointed in you.


God bless.

 

[savedbymercy]

I'll be happy to, but if you don't mind, I'd like to focus first on this:





Now you propose those in the Old Testament are the "Old Testament Church," but both quoted passages deny that, the first showing that it is in Christ that...


Eph 1:9-11

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

...which denies this took place under Old Testament Economies, and the second...


Gen 49:10

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.


So have I mistaken your proposal? Or are you saying the Church existed in the Old Testament?

Please clarify and then answer my question:





The reason I ask for clarification is that you present opposing views.

You go on to say...





...which makes it clear your proposals need to be clarified.

If they weren't one then, and that it awaited Christ's Coming, how are they the Church?

Furthermore, we can see plainly that it was not only those of Israel that were counted as faithful.

So again...

So would that mean that there is a difference between Israel prior to Pentecost and Israel made one through faith in Christ with Gentiles?


God bless.

Yeah I mind, so what you going to do?

 

[Darrell C]

Yeah I mind, so what you going to do?

You mind...that I have responded exactly as you requested?

Tell you what I'm going to do, I am going to call you on that and say either respond or admit you cannot.

If you don't mind, that is...


God bless.