The Context of the Parenthesis Church

[Darrell C]

That still means Christ's death, burial and resurrection was not sufficient and that like I said is a problem.

No it doesn't. Just as at the end of the Millennial Kingdom there will be vengeance exacted on the wicked, which culminates in the Second death.

You're confusing redemption of the creation with redemption of men.


God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

Where do you get that their deaths redeem the earth? God's wrath poured out on the earth produces the reclamation of the earth.

Who is Kenneth Copeland??????????????

How is GOD's wrath poured out on the earth? I thought the GRRReaaaT Tribulation was "Jacob's Time of Trouble"!

 

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by blessedwife318
So your saying that the earth and all the people on the earth during the tribulation have to pay the price to be redeemed? That's what it looks like you are saying, which would mean that the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ did not accomplish all of redemption and that is a huge problem.

You are asking a pertinent question that needs to be answered!

 

[revmwc]

How is GOD's wrath poured out on the earth? I thought the GRRReaaaT Tribulation was "Jacob's Time of Trouble"!

Scripture calls it the time of Jacob's trouble and Israel is troubled by the Beast in Tribualation and while that is occuring God is pouring His wrath out on the unholy trinity and the inhabitants of the earth. At the same time He protects the 144,000 but many who trust Christ in the Tribulation are beheaded for the sake of Christ.

 

[OldRegular]

Scripture calls it the time of Jacob's trouble and Israel is troubled by the Beast in Tribualation and while that is occuring God is pouring His wrath out on the unholy trinity and the inhabitants of the earth. At the same time He protects the 144,000 but many who trust Christ in the Tribulation are beheaded for the sake of Christ.

So the earth is not the object of the wrath of GOD. It is the people who dwell upon the earth!

 

[revmwc]

That still means Christ's death, burial and resurrection was not sufficient and that like I said is a problem.

It was fully sufficient for man's salvation He SAid "IT IS FINISHED" what was finished the Salvation of mankind. He became the propitiation for mankinds sin, He blood fully atoned for man's sin.

But the earth is still under the curse we see,
Romans 8:20-22,

20 "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."

The earth still groans and it will be redeemed in the Tribulation.

 

[revmwc]

So the earth is not the object of the wrath of GOD. It is the people who dwell upon the earth!

God wrath is poured out and man is affected, we are told billions of people die. 1/3 of the population at one point, 1/4 at another point. While the vials and plagues are being poured out, sounds like God's wrath being poured out.

 

[blessedwife318]

So earth has to redeem it self.:BangHead:

 

[DHK]

So earth has to redeem it self.:BangHead:

No, the "purchase price" was paid at Calvary, but everything has its proper time. We were redeemed at Calvary, but the Bible says "We wait for the redemption of our bodies." Our bodies have not yet been redeemed. They still remain under the curse, as does this earth. At the resurrection we will receive our new bodies--they will be redeemed. At the Second Coming the earth will be renewed, restored--as it was in the Garden of Eden. Animals will be in harmony with each other once again.

 

[OldRegular]

It was fully sufficient for man's salvation He SAid "IT IS FINISHED" what was finished the Salvation of mankind. He became the propitiation for mankinds sin, He blood fully atoned for man's sin.

But the earth is still under the curse we see,
Romans 8:20-22,

20 "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."

The earth still groans and it will be redeemed in the Tribulation.

You have said this endlessly but have never told how, by what means? In fact you have not even told why the earth needs redeemed. Creation was changed by the fall but that does not mean it must be redeemed. If it does who pays the price for its redemption?

I believe there will be a New Heavens and New Earth. Some people believe that the present earth will be restored to its pre fall state.

 

[revmwc]

So earth has to redeem it self.:BangHead:

Correct according to Romans 8 it is still groaning from the curse. But in the Millennial Kingdom it will not groan anymore and the animals will even live in peace Isaiah says. That redemption can only be accomplished by God's wrath being poured out upon the earth and mankind during the Tribulation. Paul said believers are saved from the wrath of God and Jesus said those who overcome would be saved from the hour (time) of Trial (Tribulation). That can only be accomplished with a Harpazo "snatching away" prior to the Tribulation.

 

[Darrell C]

You have said this endlessly but have never told how, by what means? In fact you have not even told why the earth needs redeemed. Creation was changed by the fall but that does not mean it must be redeemed. If it does who pays the price for its redemption?

I believe there will be a New Heavens and New Earth. Some people believe that the present earth will be restored to its pre fall state.

Here are a few examples of the earth's redemption, which you are already aware of:


Isaiah 65:20

King James Version (KJV)

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.


We know this is speaking about the Millennial Kingdom because there will be no death in the Eternal State, when the New Heavens and Earth are created.

Longevity of life began it's decline after the earth was cursed.


Isaiah 65:25

King James Version (KJV)

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.


Enmity between man and animals, and animals against other animals will apparently cease.

When man and animals were created, they were created vegetarian, and it was not until the earth was cursed that they began eating each other.

Because those who repeatedly ask "who gets paid" try to impose a salvific context into the redemption of creation, they overlook the purpose of God's judgment on the earth as a whole, which is to remove that which offends. Satan is bound, and false teaching not tolerated, the false prophet and teacher being forced to work covertly, as they used to, unlike today...where they have "freedom of speech:"


Zechariah 13

King James Version (KJV)

1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.

4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:

5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.

6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.


Christ's victory extends over every aspect of creation, but, in this current age Satan is still given power to work his devilry. When he is bound it will become clear that man's natural condition will be shown to not need an excuse to rebel against God. He won't be able to say "The Devil made me do it," even as he cannot say that now.

And this in an Age where there will be no doubt Who Christ is, and what He commands man.


God bless.

 

[revmwc]

No, the "purchase price" was paid at Calvary, but everything has its proper time. We were redeemed at Calvary, but the Bible says "We wait for the redemption of our bodies." Our bodies have not yet been redeemed. They still remain under the curse, as does this earth. At the resurrection we will receive our new bodies--they will be redeemed. At the Second Coming the earth will be renewed, restored--as it was in the Garden of Eden. Animals will be in harmony with each other once again.

The Tribulation is where the terms of the redemption of the lost inheritance, the land must be accomplished. Just the things that could be redeemed by the Kinsman redeemer. That is what the Tribulation does so that when the Kingdom comes the earth will have been redeemed and revert back to pre-flood and pre-fall state.

 

[revmwc]

You have said this endlessly but have never told how, by what means? In fact you have not even told why the earth needs redeemed. Creation was changed by the fall but that does not mean it must be redeemed. If it does who pays the price for its redemption?

I believe there will be a New Heavens and New Earth. Some people believe that the present earth will be restored to its pre fall state.

Post 200 I answered it.

There will be a Kingdom as defined by O.T. prophets Isaiah said that even the animals will lay down in peace together. That is in the 1000 year reign of Christ, Prior to the New Heaven and New Earth, there is a 1000 year Kingdom with Christ reigning that according to Revelation 20. Then the New Heaven and New Earth occurs with New Jerusalem coming to rest upon the New Earth.

 

[revmwc]

Here are a few examples of the earth's redemption, which you are already aware of:


Isaiah 65:20

King James Version (KJV)

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.


We know this is speaking about the Millennial Kingdom because there will be no death in the Eternal State, when the New Heavens and Earth are created.

Longevity of life began it's decline after the earth was cursed.


Isaiah 65:25

King James Version (KJV)

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.


Enmity between man and animals, and animals against other animals will apparently cease.

When man and animals were created, they were created vegetarian, and it was not until the earth was cursed that they began eating each other.

Because those who repeatedly ask "who gets paid" try to impose a salvific context into the redemption of creation, they overlook the purpose of God's judgment on the earth as a whole, which is to remove that which offends. Satan is bound, and false teaching not tolerated, the false prophet and teacher being forced to work covertly, as they used to, unlike today...where they have "freedom of speech:"


Zechariah 13

King James Version (KJV)

1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.

4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:

5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.

6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.


Christ's victory extends over every aspect of creation, but, in this current age Satan is still given power to work his devilry. When he is bound it will become clear that man's natural condition will be shown to not need an excuse to rebel against God. He won't be able to say "The Devil made me do it," even as he cannot say that now.

And this in an Age where there will be no doubt Who Christ is, and what He commands man.


God bless.

One correction an oversight probably. The animals became vegetarian after the World Wide Flood.

Genesis 9:3 shows this.

 

[Darrell C]

One correction an oversight probably. The animals became vegetarian after the World Wide Flood.

Genesis 9:3 shows this.

Genesis 9:3

King James Version (KJV)

3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.


I just don't see that as showing that animals became vegetarian after the Flood.



However, it is an outstanding verse to show a distinctive point in time where the eating of animals is pointed out, reversing what was originally intended:


Genesis 1:29-30

King James Version (KJV)

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.


I would think it safe to say that the original intention for food was corrupted in the Fall, even as those who were destroyed were. Something else interesting about this is that this stands somewhat in opposition to the dietary laws imposed by the Covenant of Law.

Thanks for the verse.


God bless.

 

[revmwc]

Genesis 9:3

King James Version (KJV)

3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.


I just don't see that as showing that animals became vegetarian after the Flood.



However, it is an outstanding verse to show a distinctive point in time where the eating of animals is pointed out, reversing what was originally intended:


Genesis 1:29-30

King James Version (KJV)

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.


I would think it safe to say that the original intention for food was corrupted in the Fall, even as those who were destroyed were. Something else interesting about this is that this stands somewhat in opposition to the dietary laws imposed by the Covenant of Law.

Thanks for the verse.


God bless.

The part in red did you mean to say non vegetarian?

 

[OldRegular]

No, the "purchase price" was paid at Calvary, but everything has its proper time. We were redeemed at Calvary, but the Bible says "We wait for the redemption of our bodies." Our bodies have not yet been redeemed. They still remain under the curse, as does this earth. At the resurrection we will receive our new bodies--they will be redeemed. At the Second Coming the earth will be renewed, restored--as it was in the Garden of Eden. Animals will be in harmony with each other once again.

I am in essential agreement with what you say above, however, it appears you need to eddiicate some of your cohorts on this thread! They seem to believe that the so-called Great Seven Year Tribulation is needed to redeem the earth.

 

[OldRegular]

Post 200 I answered it.

Post 200 answered nothing. Your assertion that the Great Seven Year Tribulation was required to redeem the earth has gone unanswered despite of repeated requests by blessedwife318 and me. DHK has taken you two off the hook in his post 209 if you are wise enough to heed!

 

[OldRegular]

One correction an oversight probably. The animals became vegetarian after the World Wide Flood.

Genesis 9:3 shows this.

:laugh:-So when did they become carnivorous again?-:laugh: