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Post #139

Post #147

Post #139 by DHK says nothing about the restoration of the earth that I see/ Post #147 says Nothing!

 

Dont forget they also were a failure......'The bride of Christ a FAILURE!!!'

 

Oh my Lord......really?!? So what did this cousin find out? :laugh:

 

BR is the guy who's posts are the same in every thread, every topic, every board...

Broken Record.

Well, I'll admit, when we actually include everything it records it does tend to become a little complicated, but not something that cannot come to be understood.

More complicated than an eschatology that just takes what confuses away.

Well, my view still has the thousand years that the Holy Spirit had John record. It still has the three resurrections. It still has Christ's Return in it's proper place. It still has seven years.

Oh, and it's actually...still Prophecy.

And my view is splintered? lol

Here is another person that receives payment:


Revelation 20

King James Version (KJV)

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


I don't know, maybe you didn't get you theology from the Pope. I'm beginning to think maybe...the History Channel, perhaps?

Another thread where what, four or five pages wasted.


God bless.

 

You're going to start a Church?

I can suggest a slogan:

"Primitive...as you've never seen it!"




God bless.

 

Because you always derail every topic to Darby, Dispensationalism (which apparently you are not very familiar with, seeing there are a number of different dispensational views, many of their doctrines accepted by a number of groups not called dispensational), and Deflection...you miss out on what the other members here actually believe about Israel.

For the record, I consistently teach that Israel is, and always have been a secular people in need of Messiah. They were not "saved" in the Old Testament through the Religion of Judaism, nor were they eternally redeemed through the First Covenant (Covenant of Law). When they died in the Economy, they did not go to Heaven to be with the Lord, but were consigned to Sheol, called Hades by the Lord with the contemporary equivalent. When Christ came, this Nation, created to be the Old Testament type of the Church, rejected Christ. He came unto His Own and His Own...received Him not.

For this reason God has withdrawn, so to speak, His provisional blessings of "rest," just as He has done numerous times in the past, in which case Israel suffered tribulation. But among His People Israel...He has always maintained a Remnant.

The faithful Remnant today, just as the faithful of the Gentiles, are born again believers. What Israel did not foresee, because their blindness did not permit them, was that God's Redemptive Plan has always provided for all who are faithful in obedience to His Word.

Why do you think Israel was created in the first place?

Many confuse Israel as being "chosen," when in fact Israel was created.

This is just as true with the Church, the Body of Christ: she is a created people who, unlike the Nation of Israel, has been born again through the Eternal Indwelling of God, an indwelling promised in the Old Testament Economies.

The nation Israel was not the endgame in Redemption, the Body of Christ was. There will be One Shepherd, and One Fold, and those Sheep will be gathered in the Tribulation, which will drive many to faith in Christ.

There were no Christians prior to Pentecost.

Not understanding that is why the Doctrinal Forums resemble the wasteland of the Wilderness in understanding and obedience, because the magnitude of the Work of Christ is not properly understood.

This is why we have people like you, BR, advocating self and your theology...instead of glorifying Christ and teaching men to come to trust Him. It is because you do not grasp the desperate situation of mankind's condition, because you cannot see it in yourself.

The truth is that you create false arguments so you can fill in the answers you want to impose in every topic, every thread, every board.

Quote one Dispensationalist that states "God favors Jews."

Just one, so you can prove you are not creating falsehoods so your doctrine has a platform.

Just one.

God does not have a "program for Israel," God has a program for Mankind.

You need to get on board with that Program, that you might be of some eternal value in the battle we face. You need to come to understand who the enemy is, instead of battling flesh and blood, your own not the least of your problem.

Still in limbo? lol

You mean purgatory, perhaps?

There is a lot of bad teaching out there, you being a prime example of that.

God's Redemptive Plan is right on track, as it has always been. Progressive revelation maintains a consistency throughout the Record of Scripture, and if we will but see that, our understanding will benefit.

More like..."had her chain yanked."

And she has done a much better job than you at trying to respond to the points and questions posed.

But then, women have had to be the backbone of a number of fellowships and Christian Communities for years...


God bless.

 

Just not a Biblically sound statement.

It is very clear that when Christ returns...believers are left behind.

We see that in both Old Testament as well as New Testament Prophecy, and specifically taught by Christ Himself.


Again:


Luke 17:30-37

King James Version (KJV)

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.


The question you need to answer is "Why is the thousand years in Revelation 20 not a thousand years?"

That the earth needs to be redeemed is simply a Basic Biblical Principle:


Genesis 3:17-18

King James Version (KJV)

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;


Romans 8:21-23

King James Version (KJV)

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.



And when we look at the description given concerning the earth in the Old Testament Promise, we see that the earth will undergo a reformation.

And I believe that is what the Lord speaks about here:


Matthew 19:28

King James Version (KJV)

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

There has been answer. That you did not see it or that you did not accept it, as BR did not, doesn't mean it has not been answered, and answered well.

The Tribulation will deliver the wages of sin in the most spectacular fashion ever seen on this earth in a Day of the Lord event. It will by far surpass the events of the Old Testament, such as Israel's being taken into captivity or any time they were conquered by men.

And I would need to see you quote someone saying it is the earth paying the price, I didn't see that in what he said.

Christ is always the Redeemer, another Basic Bible Principle, and the Tribulation will see the earth redeemed:


Revelation 11:18

King James Version (KJV)

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Romans 8:19-22

King James Version (KJV)

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

The means is finished, but we don't see fulfillment until we are bodily redeemed. This includes Creation, the physical Universe, which will be made new, even as our bodies are.

And trying to debate current antagonists does as well.

Darby was not the "father" of either Dispensationalism or a Pre-Trib Rapture. Both can be understood as taught by Paul in the First century, and the concept of "Dispensationalism" going back even further:


Hebrews 3

King James Version (KJV)

1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.


Hebrews 4:7

King James Version (KJV)

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.


Do you understand how these are Biblically dispensational?

If you can come to understand...


Romans 6:23

King James Version (KJV)

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


...then, and only then...will you understand the payment many receive in the Tribulation.

No, the earth will be born again.

It did not sin, it came under the curse through sin, which will be remedied in a very physical manner through the Tribulation.

Think of it like a body having cancer removed.

Sometimes, sometimes...


God bless.

 

How do you arrive at that from what he states here?

He is correct, the Church has always been the Redemptive Plan of God:


Genesis 3:15

King James Version (KJV)

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.



Genesis 28:13-15

King James Version (KJV)

13 And, behold, the Lord stood above it, and said, I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.


Romans 9:29

King James Version (KJV)

29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.



Galatians 3:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

This...


Revelation 13:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


...does not imply Christ went to the Cross before the world was formed, which is clearly shown in Scripture to have a particular time when it was to take place.

There is appoint in time when God manifested in human flesh and went to a very real death in that body:


Philippians 2:5-10

King James Version (KJV)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;


We don't spiritualize Scripture and create a false event which we know took place almost 2,000 years ago, not before the world was formed. It was God's Plan before the world was formed, but implemented nearly 2,000 years ago, as History attests.

The Glory of God was veiled in human flesh, and God did indeed...provide Himself a lamb.


Hebrews 10:19-20

King James Version (KJV)

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;



God bless.

 

Daniel's Seventieth Week will be a seven year period even as the first 69 were.

Simple math.

It's very easy to refute false arguments created to supply a platform for one's doctrine.

The false teachers are easily identified because they have no answer to the holes in their doctrine and the conflict with Scripture that is pointed out.


God bless.

 

Where do you get this nonsence.....talk about being brainwashed.........you are really text book.... :laugh:

 

Windy also!:thumbs:

 

That is what is so asinine!

 

I don't know how Daniel got here but how does seven days become seven years in the literalism of pre-tribbers or does that title give you special dispensation-:laugh:-to interpret Scripture to suit Darby's whim? And then how does the literal hermeneutic enable you to put a 2500+ years and counting between the mid part of the 70th week and the whenever?-:laugh:-

 

Yeah, very windy, but you still didn't answer the question. No one will some simply show by their comments!

 

Same place I get that we are not to forsake the assembling of the brethren and that persecuting the Church is persecuting Jesus Christ: the Bible.

Check it out.

And if you can muster the effort, try actually reading what the posts states, and then, if you are not overly slothful, you can point out which parts of it is nonsense.

Yup.

James 3:9

King James Version (KJV)

9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

 

I appreciate you guys making this so easy. Have a busy day today so the potshots really help out.


God bless.

 

I didn't say it was.
The curse on the earth came when Adam sinned. When Christ paid the penalty for our sin the curse on man was partially lifted in that he gave salvation to all who believe. It will be fully lifted at his second coming when we receive our glorified bodied, and by the second advent when the Jews are restored in the Millennial Kingdom. The Tribulation is not a payment. The Tribulation is a judgment and the salvation of the Jews, a fulfillment of OT promises. The payment was at the cross not to be fulfilled until after the Tribulation. The promises of that fulfillment are plenty in Isaiah and many other OT scriptures.

The Scriptures I gave you in Romans 8 alone should be sufficient:

Consider the entire passage:
Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Verse 18 tells us that something much greater still lies ahead--a glory that cannot be compared with this present time.

Consider vs. 19 in the ESV
Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.
--All of God's creation is eagerly looking the Coming of Christ, along with the saints of God from heaven. God's creation is looking toward the Second Coming.

vs. 20 God's creation was subject to vanity--a reference back to the fall. It will be restored. The curse will be lifted.

vs. 21. The creature itself shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption.
This will only happen when Christ comes to set up his Kingdom.
No more let sins and sorrows grow
Nor thorns infest the ground
He comes to make
His blessings flow

22. We know that his whole creation groans and travails in pain until now.
But there is coming a time when it won't. It will be redeemed.
As we will be fully redeemed. We wait for the redemption of our bodies.
The curse will be fully lifted when Christ comes to set up his Millennial Kingdom and rules with a rod of iron from the throne of David for a thousand years.

He rules the world with truth and grace
And makes the nations prove
The glories of His righteousness
And wonders of His love

--That is not now. It will be in the Millennial Kingdom.

 

I know that but others did and then repeatedly refuse to say who received payment!

 

Since this is the claim that has gotten lost in the shuffle and refusing to be answered I thought I would repost it.

So who is the price being paid to? And why does the earth have to pay its own price to be redeemed?
Can anyone answer these questions instead of shuffling around?