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Featured Are some Baptists "historic revisionists " ?

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by lakeside, May 14, 2015.

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  1. Rebel

    Rebel Active Member

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    Yes, the church has prevailed even though the counterfeit RCC tried to wipe it out for centuries.

    I take offense at your slander. I thought that even though you and I disagree, that you were a person of honor. I see I was wrong. I never attacked you personally, but now you have done so to me. Took you a while, but you finally showed your true colors. You are dust shaken off my feet. You may perish with your pagan church if you don't heed the warnings given you.
     
    #101 Rebel, May 20, 2015
  2. Rebel

    Rebel Active Member

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    I agree. Let them post as much as they can and want to. It just provides more evidence that the RCC is a man-made religion with a thin layer of Christianity on top to fool the sheeple.
     
    #102 Rebel, May 20, 2015
  3. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Should we let Lake in on the secret that Baptists are not Protestants!
     
    #103 Salty, May 21, 2015
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think it goes back to Matthew 7:6. It depends on how we are "debating" them.
     
    #104 JonC, May 21, 2015
  5. lakeside

    lakeside New Member

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    JonC, Matt. 7: 6 is not what you think it is, That verse is dealing with an obstinately impenitent fellow Christian [ Matt. 18:17 ]
     
    #105 lakeside, May 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2015
  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Salty, you are denying reality. Of course Baptists are Protestants. We sure ain't protest ants.
     
    #106 Rippon, May 21, 2015
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Matt 7 is pre "Christian". The context is within Israel (mixed Jewish audience). What you will see is that these are addressed as followers (they are following Jesus) but will not end up being followers of Jesus (they will desert Him at the difficulty of his words...i.e., John 6).
     
    #107 JonC, May 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2015
  8. lakeside

    lakeside New Member

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    1609, John Smyth formed the Baptists in Holland.
    1639, Roger Williams started the Baptists in America. They have since splintered severely.
     
    #108 lakeside, May 21, 2015
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    That was Luther's view (those who rejected infant baptism were "among" them as they broke from the RCC but were not a part of them and never were because they held to that old heresy.
     
    #109 JonC, May 21, 2015
  10. lakeside

    lakeside New Member

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    This is the only Baptists history that you have. You may say that your group stated before Luther, but you few people are alone in that unsubstantial belief, all competent secular and religious historians do not agree, and "nor can you show proof of anything incuding the Holy Bible to support your ridiculous history of 1St Century Baptists or of the Bible as being the only sole rule for salvation." All you people started your split away churches off one another through the past 4-5 hundred years.

    Explain WHY Martin Luther [the Protestant-or whatever-'guru' of the anti-Biblical 'doctrines' of sola-scriptura, sola-fide, and sola-universal priesthood that ALL of you follow] preached these sermons to his followers:

    SERMONS BY LUTHER

    A 1522 sermon by Martin Luther to his followers:

    "Accordingly, we concede to the papacy that they sit in the true Church, possessing the office instituted by Christ and inherited from the apostles to teach, baptize, administer the sacrament, absolve, ordain, etc."
    Sermon for the Sunday after Christ's Ascension; John 15:26-16:4 (2nd sermon), page 265, paragraph 28. (1522)

    Luther remarked several years later in 1557 in another sermon to his followers:

    "We concede - as we must - that so much of what they [the Catholic Church] say is true: that the papacy has God's word and the office of the apostles, and that we have received Holy Scripture, Baptism, the Sacrament, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them?"
    Sermon on the gospel of St. John, chaps. 14 - 16 (1557), in vol. 24 of LUTHER'S WORKS, St. Louis, MO, Concordia, 1961, 304

    And don't turn around and try to tell those of us who know better [like Luther ACTUALLY did], that you "don't follow Luther" 'cause you DO follow his false, anti-Biblical 'doctrines' of sola-scriptura, sola-fide, and sola-universal priesthood.

    Your [plural] content is always self-contraditory, pitfully anti-Biblical.
     
    #110 lakeside, May 21, 2015
  11. PreachTony

    PreachTony Active Member

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    Wow. You believe in infant baptism and purgatory, yet you accuse us of being anti-Biblical?
     
    #111 PreachTony, May 21, 2015
  12. lakeside

    lakeside New Member

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    PreachTony, in essence what you wrote is that besides me believing in infant Baptism and purgatory all early Christians also believed in purgatory and infant Baptism, because early church history proves it. There is more proof in the Holy Bible supporting Infant Baptism along with Purgatory than not.
     
    #112 lakeside, May 21, 2015
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Lakeside, all disagreement aside you greatly misunderstand what most Baptists say of their history. It is not important when a denomination came about, it is not important if they can trace their physical church to the New Testament Church, but it is important that it meet the standard of being a part of the Church. Most Baptists who say that they are not "Protestant" speak of distinctive doctrine that was not a part of the Reformers ideologies.

    If you look at organizations, then of course we are Protestant - those groups that held "baptistic" beliefs were present apart from the Catholic Church but history shows they joined the Reformers in the movement (and later continued by trying to reform the Reformers). Luther spoke of the doctrines that they held (they were Protestant in that they joined the movement - they were not in that they did not share the same beliefs).
     
    #113 JonC, May 21, 2015
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Then provide it. If Scripture does teach infant baptism along with Purgatory then it shouldn't be hard.
     
    #114 JonC, May 21, 2015
  15. lakeside

    lakeside New Member

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    I've given verses and passages in previous posts. i.e. whole families back then contain infants, same as today, unless you won't to argue the issue just for the sake of arguing
     
    #115 lakeside, May 21, 2015
  16. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    But in many ways we are united
     
    #116 Salty, May 21, 2015
  17. PreachTony

    PreachTony Active Member

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    Not necessarily true. Go to my parents' house and speak to my Dad. If you were to baptize him and his whole household, it would just be him and Mom. No infants present.

    There is, however, scripture stating that people have to hear the preached word before baptism. Every instance of baptism in the NT involves a believer who makes a profession of faith. Babies are incapable of doing so. That's scriptural.
     
    #117 PreachTony, May 21, 2015
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Why, in your religion, is a person baptized? (What is the purpose).
     
    #118 JonC, May 21, 2015
  19. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    The New Testament contains four instances of entire households being baptized. Do you really think you could baptize four households in N.T. times, with most often several generations living there, without there being at least one baby? Of course it's possible, but it's also possible that I could drive home blindfolded and find the way into my driveway.

    You are right that every instance of baptism in the N.T. involves a believer who has made a profession of faith (with the possible exception of the household baptisms). However, in the N.T. every baptism was of a person who had just heard the gospel. We see zero instances of what they did when a child was born to Christian parents and raised in a Christian home. There is absolutely no scriptural guidance for an appropriate age to baptize these children.

    Finally, where is that scripture that says one must hear the preached word before being baptized? The only thing I can find is Acts 8:37 and this verse is bracketed in the modern translation because it is not found in the oldest and best manuscripts.
     
    #119 Zenas, May 21, 2015
  20. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    For whats its worth - I went to a Catholic funeral a few years ago.
    The RCC Priest stated "Betty is in Heaven, because she was baptized." BTW, no mention of purgatory.


    Oh, BTW, should we mention that all those who are born again - are a royal priesthood!
    that's right - call me Salty the Priest!
     
    #120 Salty, May 21, 2015
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