DHK
Everything in chapter 9 and 10 set up the rest of the book. For you to deny this would mean you need to re-study the book. The heart of the OT worship and history is explained and shown to be the shadow of the heavenly reality.
I know what the context is. In #25, here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2231943&postcount=25
I gave you the entire background (not simply ch. 9 & 10), starting from chapter one.
It is a book of contrasts, "better than" being the key phrase. The NT system of worship was better than these discouraged Jewish believers going back to the Temple and once again engaging in an OT system of worship.
--We can only read what is given, nothing more, nothing less. To speak of shadows and types when there are none may be going to far unless the book says it is. It is a book of contrasts, why one system is "better" than the other.
--Through it all the Gentile believer gains a beautiful insight into OT worship which he otherwise would never have, and a comparison of the two systems--sometimes contrasting one individual to another; one system to another.
I know what you said. It was wrong the first time and it is wrong now that you repeat it.You will not come to truth with this view.
What I said:
The contrast is between two peoples coming to two places:
One to Mount Sinia; the other to Mount Zion (the heavenly Jerusalem).
You know they came to Mount Sinai. The description is clear.
What is the Heavenly Jerusalem. I explained that clearly in another thread.
This time I am going to quote from another translation (Darby)
Heb 12:22 but ye have come to mount Zion; and to the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem; and to myriads of angels,
Heb 12:23 the universal gathering; and to the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven; and to God, judge of all; and to the spirits of just men made perfect;
--Mount Zion: According to Thayer, Mount Zion is: "
since Jerusalem because the temple stood there, was called the dwelling place of God."
Have you reached the dwelling place of God yet?
--"to the city of the living God,": The also is God's abode.
Have you been to God's abode?
--"heavenly Jerusalem;" The heavenly Jerusalem is, as it says, in heaven.
Have you been to heaven (and back again perhaps)?
--"to myriads of angels," KJV, spirits, which are angels. Have you seen them?
Man cannot see spirits or angels? How did you manage?
--"the universal gathering; and to the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven;": This refers to the future assembly of all believers in heaven. It is the one-time universal church or assembly of all believers--an obvious heavenly scene.
--You claim to have been there also.
--"and to God, judge of all"
Amazing sins the Bible says "No man can see God and live. Not even Moses could pull this off. How did you manage?
--"to the spirits of just men made perfect;" This is the final phrase of this passage. No human can see spirits. Yet you claim to.
Remember, you said:
These are the exact words used in chapter 12: "Sinai," Heavenly Jerusalem."
The context is specifically defined for us.
But the context is not for us is it? Not one of us has been to heaven. We do not see angels, and we certainly cannot look upon the Father sitting on the throne. It takes a big step of spirtualizing the scripture to come to the conclusion you have done when the scripture teaches that this is a heavenly scene following the coming of Christ.
The historic fact that it happened there does not negate that it was done in type.
The verse in question:
Hebrews 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
--Read the context here. This is Mount Sinai. I think you can agree with that.
Then what was the type?
The author said: The mount could not be touched, it burned with fire, there was blackness and darkness, and tempest. When will that happen?
Peter spoke of a time like that, that was not fulfilled at Pentecost:
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
--The great and notable day starts at the beginning of the Tribulation and ends with the Second Coming. It also ends with Israel calling on the name of the Lord as they receive their Messiah as Lord.
What else will happen?
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
--1Thes.4:16 speaks of a trump; 1Cor.15:52 speaks of a trump; There are many trumpets throughout Revelation. I quoted a very relevant passage in Zechariah with a trumpet and the coming of Christ. (All--the shadow and the reality).
The earth shook at Sinai. What will happen when Christ comes in that day?
When he comes at the end of the Tribulation:
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
--The earth will indeed shake, and all the unsaved will be terrified as they see the Lamb of God. They will try to hide in the rocks and plead for them to hide us. But no man can hide from God.
The OT Israelites only got to Sinai then looked forward to the promise.
It is the Christian Israel alone who has come to the Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem......the elect remnant from Israel and grafted in gentiles...
Israel has been set aside.
He is writing to Jewish believers! This is a book of comfort to them, former Jews with a Jewish heritage thinking about going back to Temple worship.
Their thought was not that Israel had been set aside.
They were also going forward as the writer of the book was urging them to.
This was a contrast. Only some of the Israelites made it. This is not speaking of those that will be grafted in. You are ignoring context.
There is no such thing as a "Christian Israel." No such animal exists.
While the warnings applied primarily to Jewish believers...the truths revealed are for all of us...
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
That is true. There is one interpretation but many applications.
They were Jewish believers. The contrast was between the OT system as Jews and the NT system as believers. Which was "better"?
"Christ is better than...", etc.
When the Jewish believer (as well as we) reach the heavenly Jerusalem (when Christ comes) that is far better than when Israel reached either Sinai or the Promised Land.
--That fits into the overall scheme of the book. "better than."
he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.