Featured The 70th Week of Daniels Prophecy

DHK

Everything in chapter 9 and 10 set up the rest of the book. For you to deny this would mean you need to re-study the book. The heart of the OT worship and history is explained and shown to be the shadow of the heavenly reality.

I know what you said. It was wrong the first time and it is wrong now that you repeat it.You will not come to truth with this view.

The historic fact that it happened there does not negate that it was done in type.

The OT Israelites only got to Sinai then looked forward to the promise.
It is the Christian Israel alone who has come to the Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem......the elect remnant from Israel and grafted in gentiles...

Israel has been set aside.

While the warnings applied primarily to Jewish believers...the truths revealed are for all of us...

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

We do not agree here

 

They were Jewish believers. The contrast was between the OT system as Jews and the NT system as believers. Which was "better"?
"Christ is better than...", etc.
When the Jewish believer (as well as we) reach the heavenly Jerusalem (when Christ comes) that is far better than when Israel reached either Sinai or the Promised Land.

Quote:
At Mt Sinai the people could not approach without a mediator...we have direct access In Christ now.....by our Union with the ascended Lord.

Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
--At Mount Sinai they could not approach the Mount at all.
Moses first had to receive the Law. The nation had to come under Jehovah as a theocracy. It was incumbent upon Israel to accept Jehovah's terms that Jehovah be her king and she her subjects.
Thus Moses said: "I exceedingly fear and quake."

We also fear until we come to Christ. Christ will remain in heaven as our mediator. He is not presently acting as king, but as mediator. Some day he will exercise authority as king, but not now. He is our Great High Priest and intercedes for us day and night.


Quote:
There is no mention of a trumpet being blown here for the NT believers.

The mountain shook. A trumpet was blown.
So it will be at the second coming, when he comes at the last trump.

Zechariah 9:14 And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.
15 The LORD of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar.
16 And the LORD their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land.


Quote:
The type has given place to the reality......The Kingdom reign of Heaven is a present reality

The Kingdom has not yet come.
Even the disciples knew that. Christ did not deny a coming kingdom.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
--Christ said, "Not at this time." But he did not say it would not come.

 

This is not an interpretation this is the straight translation with no grammatical additions. Greek to English.

 

Jesus answered the "Basilieia" that is Dominion, Kingship, Kingdom, "emos" that is mine, is away from "kosmos" this world system, to be "eimi" present "ho" this Basilieia" Kingdom of "emos" mine my "hyperetes" servant or subordinates would "agonizomai" enter a contest in the KJV the word was translated fight, "hina" so that "me" not lest I "paradidomi" deliver into the keeping of the "loudaios" Judaans "nyn" at this present time "de" moreover the "Basilieia" Kingdom "emos" mine "ou" not "eimi" to be present "enteuthen" on this side or in this place.

So we have this "Jesus answered the Kingdom that is mine is away from this world system to be present this Kingdom of mine, my servants would enter into a contest in order that I deliver into the keeping of the Jews the Kingdom mine,but it is not to be present on this side toin this place.

Jesus said His Kingdom wasn't in the current world system if it were then His servants would fight to deliver it to the Jews but it wasn't to be at that time.

The inference of this it will be be present at some point but at that time God did not have it in His plan.

Virtually Jesus said my Kingdom is no to be delivered to the Jews at this time if it were time then my servants would fight to bring the Kingdom to the Jews.

 

Here is some help with the Greek words on that part,

Christ seems to be speaking of His Kingdom not being delivered to the Jews at that time, so how do you read this from the interlinear?

Also What Kingdom is He speaking of not being Delivered to the Jews at that time?

 

This was established in Chapters 1-5

The text is clear......YE HAVE COME TO MT ZION THE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM....it does not say you will come there in a future time!
The reason is because we are in union with Christ......that is why Paul can state this fact;
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Think this through....

He is Prophet Priest and King right now.He can and does do it all.

They did not understand the nature of the Kingdom as they looked carnally the same as those who wanted Jesus to be a political ruler.

 

I know what the context is. In #25, here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2231943&postcount=25
I gave you the entire background (not simply ch. 9 & 10), starting from chapter one.
It is a book of contrasts, "better than" being the key phrase. The NT system of worship was better than these discouraged Jewish believers going back to the Temple and once again engaging in an OT system of worship.
--We can only read what is given, nothing more, nothing less. To speak of shadows and types when there are none may be going to far unless the book says it is. It is a book of contrasts, why one system is "better" than the other.
--Through it all the Gentile believer gains a beautiful insight into OT worship which he otherwise would never have, and a comparison of the two systems--sometimes contrasting one individual to another; one system to another.

What I said:
The contrast is between two peoples coming to two places:
One to Mount Sinia; the other to Mount Zion (the heavenly Jerusalem).
You know they came to Mount Sinai. The description is clear.
What is the Heavenly Jerusalem. I explained that clearly in another thread.

This time I am going to quote from another translation (Darby)
Heb 12:22 but ye have come to mount Zion; and to the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem; and to myriads of angels,
Heb 12:23 the universal gathering; and to the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven; and to God, judge of all; and to the spirits of just men made perfect;
--Mount Zion: According to Thayer, Mount Zion is: "since Jerusalem because the temple stood there, was called the dwelling place of God."
Have you reached the dwelling place of God yet?

--"to the city of the living God,": The also is God's abode.
Have you been to God's abode?

--"heavenly Jerusalem;" The heavenly Jerusalem is, as it says, in heaven.
Have you been to heaven (and back again perhaps)?

--"to myriads of angels," KJV, spirits, which are angels. Have you seen them?
Man cannot see spirits or angels? How did you manage?

--"the universal gathering; and to the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven;": This refers to the future assembly of all believers in heaven. It is the one-time universal church or assembly of all believers--an obvious heavenly scene.
--You claim to have been there also.

--"and to God, judge of all"
Amazing sins the Bible says "No man can see God and live. Not even Moses could pull this off. How did you manage?

--"to the spirits of just men made perfect;" This is the final phrase of this passage. No human can see spirits. Yet you claim to.

Remember, you said:
These are the exact words used in chapter 12: "Sinai," Heavenly Jerusalem."
The context is specifically defined for us.
But the context is not for us is it? Not one of us has been to heaven. We do not see angels, and we certainly cannot look upon the Father sitting on the throne. It takes a big step of spirtualizing the scripture to come to the conclusion you have done when the scripture teaches that this is a heavenly scene following the coming of Christ.

The verse in question:
Hebrews 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
--Read the context here. This is Mount Sinai. I think you can agree with that.

Then what was the type?
The author said: The mount could not be touched, it burned with fire, there was blackness and darkness, and tempest. When will that happen?
Peter spoke of a time like that, that was not fulfilled at Pentecost:

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
--The great and notable day starts at the beginning of the Tribulation and ends with the Second Coming. It also ends with Israel calling on the name of the Lord as they receive their Messiah as Lord.

What else will happen?
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
--1Thes.4:16 speaks of a trump; 1Cor.15:52 speaks of a trump; There are many trumpets throughout Revelation. I quoted a very relevant passage in Zechariah with a trumpet and the coming of Christ. (All--the shadow and the reality).
The earth shook at Sinai. What will happen when Christ comes in that day?
When he comes at the end of the Tribulation:

Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
--The earth will indeed shake, and all the unsaved will be terrified as they see the Lamb of God. They will try to hide in the rocks and plead for them to hide us. But no man can hide from God.

He is writing to Jewish believers! This is a book of comfort to them, former Jews with a Jewish heritage thinking about going back to Temple worship.
Their thought was not that Israel had been set aside.
They were also going forward as the writer of the book was urging them to.
This was a contrast. Only some of the Israelites made it. This is not speaking of those that will be grafted in. You are ignoring context.
There is no such thing as a "Christian Israel." No such animal exists.

That is true. There is one interpretation but many applications.

They were Jewish believers. The contrast was between the OT system as Jews and the NT system as believers. Which was "better"?
"Christ is better than...", etc.
When the Jewish believer (as well as we) reach the heavenly Jerusalem (when Christ comes) that is far better than when Israel reached either Sinai or the Promised Land.
--That fits into the overall scheme of the book. "better than."

 

It was not cut and paste I looked it up and typed it all in.

Seems to be at least to me.
I don't see in the origianl language where Jesus said it was the Kingdom of God. Please show where that is in the original language or even in the English where He says the Kingdom of God!

This portion with the key Greek typed in from the Greek lexicon, "I "paradidomi" deliver into the keeping of the "loudaios" Judaans "nyn" at this present time "de" moreover the "Basilieia" Kingdom "emos" mine "ou" not "eimi" to be present "enteuthen" on this side or in this place."

Please answer the questions from what is seen in the quoted area:

How do you read this from the interlinear?

Also What Kingdom is He speaking of not being Delivered to the Jews at that time?

 

To deny the existence or reality of an actual physical kingdom on earth is to deny hundreds of prophesies on the OT especially. One of the definitions of blasphemy is "to insult God," and that is what it would be--an insult to the hundreds of promises that God has made to Israel--an insult to the integrity of God.

Even the disciples expected Christ to establish His Messianic Kingdom before he left this earth.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
--They said this in light of the hundreds of references to the Kingdom that Christ was to establish. The Jews were not expecting a "suffering Messiah," but one who would come as promised--in power and in glory, sitting as the King of David, reigning with the scepter of Judah, and with full authority as every knee would bow to him.

The disciples were not wrong. Neither did Jesus rebuke them.
He said:
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
--Their problem was not "IF there was a Kingdom to come," but rather WHEN it would come. It would come indeed. But it would not come now. For you to deny its coming is to deny the words of Christ--insulting to the Lord.

 

DHK

Going back to Ot worship was not an option but apostasy.

.

This is where you totally and wilfully miss it completely.
That is exactly what the book does say...Using that exact language;

8:8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

ylt;
5 who unto an example and shadow do serve of the heavenly things, as Moses hath been divinely warned, being about to construct the tabernacle, for `See (saith He) thou mayest make all things according to the pattern that was shewn to thee in the mount;')


23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:


23 [It is] necessary, therefore, the pattern indeed of the things in the heavens to be purified with these, and the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these;

24 for not into holy places made with hands did the Christ enter -- figures of the true -- but into the heaven itself, now to be manifested in the presence of God for us;

.
No one disputes these things....they are not the issue.

Now you proceed to make another of your pathetic clown posts...
clown
/kloun/
a comic entertainer, especially one in a circus, wearing a traditional costume and exaggerated makeup.

you cannot understand spiritual truth at all so you ridicule those that do. I will not cast pearls before swine, who bear false witness

Clown

Clown

Clown

Lying clown......show where I sad such a thing.....not where you imagine this in your twisted mind.....


--"and to God, judge of all"
Amazing sins the Bible says "No man can see God and live. Not even Moses could pull this off. How did you manage?

--"to the spirits of just men made perfect;" This is the final phrase of this passage. No human can see spirits. Yet you claim to.

Remember, you said:
These are the exact words used in chapter 12: "Sinai," Heavenly Jerusalem."
The context is specifically defined for us.

The context might not be for you....if you recall I said it was for true biblical Christians who live under the rule of King Jesus....you profess to live in a world ruled by Satan

All biblical Christians have the Kingdom rule at new birth;

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Then again you deny this in several of the threads as you deny the new covenant is for the church....you deny the inner working of the Spirit as per Ezk 36.....

You do not understand Union with Christ at all.

It does not teach that to except to those who deny the actual teaching as you do. Scripture is spiritually discerned......you lack this capacity.....your views are carnal and physical 24/7.....so of course you are critical...

It has happened already.....you deny this also right here in your next false teaching;

False teaching by you Peter says this;
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Only in your fantasy world which OR has totally exposed.

This language was used already in Isa 34 of a temporal judgement that you cannot account for;

And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

You do not know what they were thinking...it does not matter what they were thinking, they were warned not to commit apostasy.

Not in your world which you claim to be ruled by satan.....in the world that I live in there is.

 

A typical Calvinistic answer. You answer the same way the Sanhedrin did.

Act 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

They also concluded that they were unlearned and ignorant.
And you agree with them?? That is a shame!

They knew the Scriptures better than you did, and they knew well of the promises of the Kingdom which all Israel knew about. They were expecting a reigning Messiah, not a suffering one. That is one of the reasons Israel rejected Christ. They knew the promises. The same reason is given here: Are you going to set up your Kingdom (earthly)? They were not wrong in the question, and they were not rebuked for it? Neither did Jesus deny that such a kingdom was coming.

In fact he told the disciples to pray:
"Thy kingdom come; thy will be done."
Are you praying for God's Kingdom to come, OR. That is what Christ commanded for us to be doing.

 

There is nothing here worth replying to. You spiritualize scripture to the extent that you deny it. It is a post that is written in anger and in denial. It won't be replied to.

 

The disciples knew and were sure of a coming physical millennial kingdom. When that is pointed out by quoting Acts 1:6,7, the typical Calvinist answer is that the disciples were ignorant and confused--the same type of answer or assessment that the Sanhedrin gave of Peter and John in Acts 4:13. I find that answer quite insulting to the intelligence of the disciples.

All of those six events are made in the 70th week or later. They are still future. The point is, They were not made in the past at the cross or in 70 A.D. They are still in the future.

And that should be enough for you. It is a revised statement though not much different for three of those statements are still WITHIN the 70th week.

So it is. Three of them are, and three of them are just after.
Revised means revised.

 

Matthew 20:20-23

The disciples and the mother of James and John believed in an earthly Kingdom Jesus didn't say it is a Spiritual Kingdom, in fact He said the Father would choose those who will sit on the right hand and left hand of Him in the Kingdom. Whoever is chosen will sit there in the Kingdom, but when would they be chosen? Not in A.D. 70 it could be someone in this time frame, they will be chosen when the Kingdom comes.

Again which Kingdom are they referring too?

The Israelites on the day of Christ Triumphal entry, when He entered the city as a conquering Kingdom had the people and even His disciples saying "Blessed be the kingdom of our father David." They knew prophecy, they knew the significance and they fully expected Christ to reign upon earth in the earthly Kingdom upon David's throne.

Yet again Christ offered Himself as the King to the Jews and we see

They fully expected a King and a Kingdom.

Again we see Him Proclaimed as the King coming in the name of the Lord, but the Pharisees wanted them rebuked, why because they were proclaiming a King and therefore a Kingdom.

Which brought the Question from Pilot John 18:33-37,

Did Jesus deny that He was a King here?

Jesus said to this end He was born, that is to die on the cross first, but also to be the King of the Jews!

These two incidents show that there is to be an earthly Kingdom upon which Jesus shall reign, He was born for this cause.