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A carryover thread from 'The Children whom God hath given me .'
- Thread starter SovereignGrace
- Start date
Mormons are unbiblical an ungodly cult yet they claim that an angel spoke to their founderaJoseph Smith .
you claim that Muslims say the same .
that angels are telling them about Jesus so on what basis do you tell Mormons that they are mistaken
No matter how many times you stand against the Word of God you are still shot down by the Word of God.
Philippians 1:29 :
"For it has been granted to you to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him."
2 Timothy 2:25b:
"...in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth."
Acts 11:18 :
"So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life."
It is a solid truth of Scripture that God grants or gives faith and repentence to those of his choosing. No longer deny what the Bible so clearly states.
2 Thessalonians 3:2 :
"And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil people, for not everyone has faith."
You will be hardened in unbelief if you keep denying the authority of God's Word.
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Mysticism, mon ami,, mysticism.
That was referring to Lot, mon ami.
Moroni ring a bell, mon ami?
God also spoke through a donkey. He also raised Lazarus from his grave four days after death. Aprophet was swallowed and vomited out three days later. Do these things happen now?
The bible does not use 'if', mon ami. You are promoting mysticism, monsieur.
They were carnal due to the fact they were devoid of the Spirit, mon ami.
The same connotation These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.[Jude 19] Do a word study of those two passages, monsieur.
You err not knowing the meaning of scripture.
First, Paul is writing to Christians.
Second, he is writing to them about privileges.
Third, It is as much as a privilege for them to believe in Christ as it is for them to suffer for Him.
Fourth. If faith is either required or given for salvation then so is suffering.
Were they to suffer for Christ before salvation. Is that also a requirement.
Is your exegesis ever faulty!!
First, he is speaking to Timothy, and he is speaking about teaching.
Second, learn the meaning of words.
He is telling Timothy that he must teach his opponents in such a way (that is with meekness), in the hope that God the Holy Spirit will bring about a change of heart and conduct. That is the ultimate goal of every teacher and counselor that I know of. It is not saying that repentance is a supernatural gift imposed by God on an unbeliever.
First, the context--All that were at the household of Cornelius.
Second, were all saved? No.
Act 11:21 And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.
--It was a great multitude, but it wasn't all.
If God "granted repentance to the Gentiles" in the sense you are using it, then all the Gentiles there would be saved, but they weren't. It was not imposed upon them. Only those that actually did repent were saved.
--The actual context here is not what happened at the household of Cornelius, but Peter recounting what happened before the Jews who are criticizing him for going into the house of a Gentile and fellowshipping with him. When they hear this report they rejoice that salvation has not "come" to the Gentiles, just as it did to them at Pentecost. That God granted it should be so, is a one time event. This is a historical event, and that is what is referring to, not an every day occurrence.
I am not the one in unbelief. You take scripture out of context and make it say something completely different than what it says. Absolutely amazing! If you continue in that vein why not join with the J.W.'s?
2Thes. 3:2 applies only to believers. It is in contrast to false teachers and speaks of "the faith."
YLT: 2Th 3:2 and that we may be delivered from the unreasonable and evil men, for the faith is not of all;
Yes, in Philippians 1:29 Paul was writing to Christians.
"For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him."
They were granted --given belief.
There is absolutely no mention or implication of privilege in the passage. You are making that up out of whole cloth.
2 Timothy 2:25b:
"...in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth."
It is not "imposed" but graciously given. Praise God that he supernaturally interposed himself into the lives of his elect ones. Without that disruption of our lives we would all eternally perish.
"...in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth."
Repentance is most certainly a supernatural gift. A person cannot manufacture it on their own.
It is not "imposed" but graciously given. Praise God that he supernaturally interposed himself into the lives of his elect ones. Without that disruption of our lives we would all eternally perish.
"So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life."
Well duh. I did not say or imply that.
Duh again. I don't know who you are arguing with about that.
"The sense I am using it" is the sense in which I quoted it. Never did I say or even hint that all Gentiles have been given repentance. Check your specs.
There you go again. When the Lord wonderfully interferes in our lives --it is an incredible blessing. He doesn't impose or force his way in. He makes stony hearts into flesh.
It happens every day. He grants/gives/gifts the ones of his choosing with faith and repentance. Don't fight it DHK --believe God's Word.
"And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil people, for not everyone has faith."
I have been saying what Scripture teaches: Not everyone has faith. You insist, despite Scripture, that every has faith. You are inverting the plain meaning of the Bible.
It certainly is. Your tradition has blinded you DHK. You are blinded now to truths of God's Word as when you were with Roman Catholics for two decades.You need to drop your tradition/philosophy and yield to the authority of God's Word.
revmwc
No...only two.....kata pneuma......kata sarka.....
under the dominon of the Spirit.....
under dominion of the flesh
Sarkikos = those who operate out of the SARX that is the flesh. Most often translated as carnal.
The old man has been crucified.
He says in this one sin.....they were acting [ as mere men, } as {carnal unsaved persons}......he does not say they were fleshly...he says they were acting out of character....in this ONE SIN.
no......they did not stop being spiritual.....they acted as the unsaved would in this one thing.
He does not say that here at all. he corrects this one sin.
The word for Spirit is Pnuema and that leads to the second type here,
There are only Christians and non Christians.
The difference is one has the Spirit, one does not.
No...only two.....kata pneuma......kata sarka.....
under the dominon of the Spirit.....
under dominion of the flesh
Sarkikos = those who operate out of the SARX that is the flesh. Most often translated as carnal.
.
The old man has been crucified.
He says in this one sin.....they were acting [ as mere men, } as {carnal unsaved persons}......he does not say they were fleshly...he says they were acting out of character....in this ONE SIN.
no......they did not stop being spiritual.....they acted as the unsaved would in this one thing.
He does not say that here at all. he corrects this one sin.
The word for Spirit is Pnuema and that leads to the second type here,
There are only Christians and non Christians.
[/QUOTE]
The difference is one has the Spirit, one does not.
If I look under your profile, and I see the number of times you were tagged for an infraction or warning--for insulting others or for using inappropriate language on this board--those times that you posted those words? Were the "of the flesh"? or, "of the Spirit"? If there are only two categories which one do you fall in?
The difference is one has the Spirit, one does not.[/QUOTE]
So at this point is the man saved or lost? He is living in sin so bad Paul said:
It was not even named among Gentiles, gross sin, Paul says he should die the sin unto death, that is allowing satan to take his life and yet he said, "the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" the man was saved yet living in the flesh, Sarchicos living carnally.
Many believe this is the same man and he repented and was to be restored. Yet he was living in a sinful relationship as a believer he was carnal but saved.
Where as
The word natural psychikos or psuechikos is a person which is "Belonging to the natural characteristics of man." The natural sensual man.
Yes, Agree. Never stated otherwise.
Huh? Whaaaa? You are joshing me, right? RIGHT? Jesus, mon ami, disagrees with you. We can read where Jesus Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?” “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."[Jn 6:35-44] As Jesus stated, no one can come to me, approach me, unless first drawn by the Father. Those who are drawn hear, and those who hear are drawn. You can not have one without the other, mon ami. Then Jesus gives the pièce de résistance when It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me."[vs 45] It takes hearing the gospel and God drawing them via it.
Non, mon ami, non. If one is not drawn, they are not drawn. They can not reject if they are not drawn. The Greek word used for 'drawn' mean to literally drag. Not in a forceful manner that causes one to come to Him kicking and screaming, but effectually drawn, mon ami.
If someone dies without hearing the gospel and we were lazy, lax, having a chance to preach it, witness to them, then you may have a valid point. But there is no way we can get to all peoples at all times, mon ami. But yes, we MUST do as much that lies within us to get the gospel to those peoples.
Wonderful to hear this. God has sheep in all religions that He will call out of them, in my opinion, mon ami.
This is worded backwards, mon ami. If God has a sheep that needs to hear the gospel in order to be saved, He will make sure someone will proclaim the gospel truth to him, thereby adding him to the fold.
Why must you repeatedly state this when the bible states otherwise? Not everyone has faith, monsieur. If you keep stating that, then I will refute it with And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil people, for not everyone has faith.[2 Thess. 3:2] Again, faith is not mystical as you repeatedly state, mon ami. Faith comes in the supernatural exchange between God and a sinner in the act of regeneration. Faith and repentance are exercised that very instant, monsieur.
The same chapter where you will that everyone has faith, monsieur.
Buying a 'clunky old car' and believing in God in a saving manner are quite the stretch, mon ami. Here is the thing, monsieur. Faith is trusting in God. Faith is believing in God. Man, in his fallen state, does not possess it. Why do I say that? Faith is never dormant. Faith is active. Faith is not asleep in a deep dark cave, waiting on someone to come by and awake it. Look at how James express faith when he wrote What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness, ”and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.[Jas. 2:14-25] Now, faith and good works go hand in hand, monsieur. Sinners can not do good works in the sight of God. Yes, we may see them as good works, sinners running marathons to help with breast cancer research, singers doing concerts and having commercials to help 'The Wounded Warrior Project', donating monies to various charities, helping their neighbors out in a time of need, yet they are still sinners in God's eyes. And we read For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.[1 Pet. 3:12] It takes God regenerating a sinner, quickening him unto life for him to exercise this necessary faith. That is why I, and conversely we, say 'saving faith'. When faith is there, it works every time. No one can choose to have faith. You either believe or you do not, but you can not choose to have faith, mon ami.
When faith is there, it is active. It is never dormant, waiting to be sensitized, monsieur.
I honestly do not know how to respond to this.
Can not say I disagree with this, if I am understanding you correctly, mon ami.
You are the one throwing that word into our discussion, and not I, monsieur.
A dead person can bring himself back to life?
Faith comes when regeneration occurs. Jesus stated "The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”[Mk 1:15] He said to repent and believe. Look at that sequence. He is saying to have a change of mind and then believe. Repentance, according to Jesus' own words, occurs prior to any believing. Then we can read that Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?[Rom. 2:4] And then When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”[Acts 11:18] And then there is Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth.[2 Tim. 2:25] Regeneration, faith, repentance, and salvation are all gifts of God mon ami.
Yes.
Faith does not lay dormant in a sinner like you state it does, mon ami. Faith is not mystical, it is supernatural. It comes in an exchange between God and a sinner.
Faith is not innate, mon ami. Innate means existing in one from birth; inborn; native, inherent in the essential character of something: originating in or arising from the intellect or the constitution of the mind, rather than learned through experience: that which I bolded reeks of Gnosticism if you use it biblically.
Do not disagree with you, monsieur.
I have told you, showed you many times what the bible says about faith and you just disagree with me. But I have truly enjoyed our discussion.
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Let's generalize it a bit more so it is not personal.
You say "there are only two groups of people: spiritual and non-spiritual (unsaved). Correct?
Now, I can point to you entire threads that have been shut down because of wicked and vile language used by posters on this board by those you consider your "friends" or "brothers in Christ." If they fall in the category of "spiritual", then you are attributing "wicked and vile language" to the Holy Spirit. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is the opposite and never is wicked and vile, and in fact it is wicked and sinful to attribute such to God the Spirit.
Therefore you are left with only one option.
Either these people are totally unsaved or they are carnal Christians. Which are they?
Speaking in general terms there there are only unsaved or saved people in the world
saved people have the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit can be grieved by a Christian by his behavior and all Christians commit acts of sin.
That being said if there's a person that goes on a message board and lies and bears false witness against other brothers on a daily basis I doubt that person is a christian because he's practicing sin and no Christian can practice sin.
God has no Undisciplined children if someone is living that grievous in sin .
God will cut him off.
Thankfully only God can see the heart and God alone is the judge of all such persons.
Consider:
Mat 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Mat 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
Mat 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
--This woman was not even of the nation of Israel (of God's elect). She was a Canaanite. Christ healed her daughter on the basis of the woman's faith. It was not the daughter that was being regenerated. It was the woman's faith. The woman was not necessarily regenerated, though we don't know for sure. The healing took place on the basis of her "great faith." That faith is innate. It is confidence.
She had confidence in Christ to heal for she had seen him heal many times before and had confidence that he could heal her daughter as well.
There is no such thing as "saving faith," or "dead faith." You are attributing characteristics to an intangible.
Satan has faith, but it is neither "alive, living, saving or dead."
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Demons have faith. What faith? Their faith is there is a God. They believe in the existence of God. You also believe in the existence of Nero. That is faith. It is purely intellectual. It is an assent to the belief of the facts.
That is what James refers to as a dead faith.
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
--My faith with and in my wife is a living faith. It is a personal faith. It produces good works. It is not a dead faith. Many people have faith in their wives before they get saved, and all people have faith in their parents before they get saved. Jesus pointed out that fact.
It is the object of the faith that is important. Parents can't save. Wives cannot save. Only Jesus can save. One must make Jesus the object of their salvation. The object of the demons faith is not God, but Satan. The believe that God exists (an intellectual belief or faith), but their real faith is in their leader who has deceived them and still believes that he can overthrow God.
You have demonstrated my very point. A person running a marathon to help with cancer has faith that what he is doing will help with that cause. He has that confidence, that faith that what he is doing will accomplish his goal. He is right. That is faith. It is the object of the faith that is important.
His object isn't Christ, and therefore will not save him. But he does have faith.
The marathon runner's faith was very active. The object of his faith was cancer research, not Christ. It wasn't a faith that doesn't save. He knew that from the beginning.
Faith is innate. He lost his faith in mankind.
Someday, hopefully, he will put his faith in Christ. That will enable him to trust others once again.