A carryover thread from 'The Children whom God hath given me .'

[revmwc]

Whatever interlinear "translation" you're quoting from is as clear as mud.

Interlinear written or printed in different languages or texts in alternate lines

In other words those verses are the Straight translation from Greek to English with no Grammatical changes. English for Greek word translations.

So what does you interlinear read like?

 

[revmwc]

Interlinear written or printed in different languages or texts in alternate lines

In other words those verses are the Straight translation from Greek to English with no Grammatical changes. English for Greek word translations.

So what does you interlinear read like?

Here is another interlinear 1 Corinthians 3:1-3:

*26th ed. Nestles, Allen Text, American Bible Society; New York
**Gramcord Institute, 2218 NE Brookview Dr,; Vancouver WA 98686
*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of 1CO 3: 1 T/ord
kagw 2504 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- I also 1
adelfos 0080 mas ---- voc p noun--- brother 2
ou 3756 ---- part --- -- ------- not 3
duvamai 1410 aor pas ind 1s ---verb to be able 4
lalew 2980 aor act --- -- ---infn to speak 5
su 4771 ---- ---- dat p pronoun you 6
ws 5613 ---- part --- -- ------- as 7
pveumatikos 4152 mas adj dat p ------- spiritual 8
alla 0235 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- but 9
ws 5613 ---- part --- -- ------- as 10
sarkikos 4559 mas adj dat p ------- fleshly 11
ws 5613 ---- part --- -- ------- as 12
vnpios 3516 mas ---- dat p ------- babes (unlearned) 13
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 14
cristos 5547 mas ---- dat s noun--- Christ 15


*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of 1CO 3: 2 T/ord
gala 1051 neu ---- acc s noun--- milk 1
su 4771 ---- ---- acc p pronoun you 2
potizw 4222 aor act ind 1s ---verb give drink 3
ou 3756 ---- part --- -- ------- not 4
brwma 1033 neu ---- acc s noun--- meat 5
oupw 3768 ---- adv --- -- ------- not yet 6
gar 1063 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- for 7
duvamai 1410 imp pas ind 2p ---verb to be able 8
alla 0235 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- but 9
oude 3761 ---- adv --- -- ------- neither 10
eti 2089 ---- adv --- -- ------- yet 11
vuv 3568 ---- adv --- -- ------- now 12
duvamai 1410 pres pas ind 2p ---verb to be able 13


*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of 1CO 3: 3 T/ord
eti 2089 ---- adv --- -- ------- yet 1
gar 1063 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- for 2
sarkikos 4559 mas adj nom p ------- fleshly 3
eimi 1510 pres act ind 2p ---verb to be/endure 4
opou 3699 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- in what place 5
gar 1063 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- for 6
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 7
su 4771 ---- ---- dat p pronoun you 8
znlos 2205 mas ---- nom s noun--- zeal 9
kai 2532 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- and 10
eris 2054 fem ---- nom s noun--- contention 11
ouci 3780 ---- part --- -- ------- no 12
sarkikos 4559 mas adj nom p ------- fleshly 13
eimi 1510 pres act ind 2p ---verb to be/endure 14
kai 2532 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- and 15
kata 2596 ---- ---- acc -- prep--- according to 16
avqrwpos 0444 mas ---- acc s noun--- man 17
peripatew 4043 pres act ind 2p ---verb I am walking 18

 

[revmwc]

Interlinear Greek to English 1 Corinthians 2:13-14

*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of 1CO 2: 13 T/ord
os 3739 neu ---- acc p pronoun which 1
kai 2532 ---- adv --- -- ------- and 2
lalew 2980 pres act ind 1p ---verb to speak 3
ou 3756 ---- part --- -- ------- not 4
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 5
didaktos 1318 mas adj dat p ------- taught 6
avqrwpivos 0442 fem adj gen s ------- mankind 7
sofia 4678 fem ---- gen s noun--- wisdom 8
logos 3056 mas ---- dat p noun--- word 9
alla 0235 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- but 10
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 11
didaktos 1318 mas adj dat p ------- taught 12
pveuma 4151 neu ---- gen s noun--- spirit 13
pveumatikos 4152 mas adj dat p ------- spiritual 14
pveumatikos 4152 neu adj acc p ------- spiritual 15
sugkrivw 4793 pres act nom p mas-Ptc communicate 16


*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of 1CO 2: 14 T/ord
yucikos 5591 mas adj nom s ------- natural 1
de 1161 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- but/also 2
avqrwpos 0444 mas ---- nom s noun--- man 3
ou 3756 ---- part --- -- ------- not 4
decomai 1209 pres mid ind 3s ---verb to receive 5
o 3588 neu artl acc p ------- the 6
o 3588 neu artl gen s ------- the 7
pveuma 4151 neu ---- gen s noun--- spirit 8
o 3588 mas artl gen s ------- the 9
qeos 2316 mas ---- gen s noun--- God 10
mwria 3472 fem ---- nom s noun--- foolishness 11
gar 1063 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- for 12
autos 0846 mas ---- dat s pronoun he/they 13
eimi 1510 pres act ind 3s ---verb to be/endure 14
kai 2532 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- and 15
ou 3756 ---- part --- -- ------- not 16
duvamai 1410 pres pas ind 3s ---verb to be able 17
givwskw 1097 aor act --- -- ---infn to know 18
oti 3754 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- because that 19
pveumatikws 4153 ---- adv --- -- ------- spiritually 20
avakrivw 0350 pres pas ind 3s ---verb I am examining 21

 

[SovereignGrace]

To Iconoclast:


Thank you for the kind words and encouragements, monsieur. :thumbs:


To DHK:


It is not a matter of semantics mon ami, but rather lifestyle. If one is living carnally, they are living fleshly, worldly, following mere natural instincs, in other words, they are devoid of God's Spirit in their lives.

We can read Paul's writing What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?[Rom. 6:1,2]


And then John's writing Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.[1 John 3:7-10]

In both of these small passages of scripture you can see them telling us how we can tell those who are saved and who are not. Those who lived sanctified lives bear the fruits. Those who do not, will show otherwise. If someone is continuing in sin, they are bearing evil fruit, mon ami.


Christians can and do sin, that matter is not up for debate. I am sure we both agree with that assessment. However, how long can a Christian reside in sin, live in darkness? If a professing believer dwells in the land of sin, lives a life of debauchery, his life does not measure up to the demands laid out in the bible, it is enough for us to realize something is amiss, mon ami.

 

[DHK]

To DHK:
It is not a matter of semantics mon ami, but rather lifestyle. If one is living carnally, they are living fleshly, worldly, following mere natural instincs, in other words, they are devoid of God's Spirit in their lives.

Then Paul wrote 1Corinthians in vain. You cannot write off their behavior so easily. These were saints in Christ. His letter was addressed to the believers not the false teachers or unbelievers. It was addressed to those who actually lived in sinful practices.
Notice what some or even may of them practiced as they came to the Lord's Table:
1Co 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
1Co 11:21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
1Co 11:22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
--All of them were carnal in this "Love Feast," that was taking place before the Lord's Supper. There was a carnal division between the rich and the poor.
The poor went away hungry and the rich were drunk and gluttonous.

They were divided and Paul pointed this carnal division as well:
1Co 11:33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
1Co 11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.
--They were to come together, in unity, specifically to worship together at the Lord's Table. Satisfying one's hunger was to be done at home. These were carnal Christians and this is but one example. I have given you many. Why do you dismiss them so easily. One cannot throw out this epistle.

The theme verses here is in chapter seven verse one, the first part:
1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me:
--He was answering the questions they wrote to him of the continuing problems in the church. They weren't one time events.
In Romans 6, it wasn't a case of one man taking another to court. It was the American way--taking each other to court on a regular basis. You hear of it every day.
--A cup of coffee spills on a lady in McDonalds--sue because it is too hot.
--"Pants Lawsuit" 2005, Pearson sues a dry-cleaning Co. for 40 million because they lost his pair of pants.
--2014 "Nike" A man in Oregon sued Nike because their shoe product could be used as a dangerous weapon. He was attacked by someone using one.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/7-most-ridiculous-lawsuits-nike-3238861
--No different in Corinth. It had become a practice.
These were carnal Christians. It was a lifestyle.

We can read Paul's writing What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?[Rom. 6:1,2]

Let's get this straight! You are not dead to sin. If you were you would be in heaven.
You are not sanctified. If you were you would be in heaven.
You are not glorified. If you were you would be in heaven.
You are not justified. If you were you would be in heaven.
You are not saved. If you were you would be in heaven.

Obviously all of the above terms have a positional meaning and a progressive meaning. We "work out our salvation." Our sanctification is progressive in which we are made holy day by day. We were justified at the time we were saved. But there are some verses that talk about justification as a completed action in the future.
"Dead to sin" in most verses is an ongoing process, not simply a finished state. To believe the latter show a serious lack of Biblical understanding in this subject.
Paul said: I die daily.
Every day he put his body to death. It wasn't a one time event.

In Romans 6:11, he said "Likewise reckon yourselves to be indeed dead unto sin.
--To reckon involves continuous action. It is an action that must be done every day. It is not a one time event.
A.T. Robertson:

Reckon ye also yourselves (kai humeis logizesthe). Direct middle imperative of logizomai and complete proof that Paul does not mean that baptism makes one dead to sin and alive to God. That is a spiritual operation “in Christ Jesus” and only pictured by baptism. This is a plea to live up to the ideal of the baptized life.

This is not something accomplished in the past. It is an imperative to be done now and every day.
(ESV) So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
--Every day.

(Geneva) Likewise thinke ye also, that ye are dead to sin, but are aliue to God in Iesus Christ our Lord.
--Every day.

(ISV) In the same way, you too must continually consider yourselves dead as far as sin is concerned, but living for God through the Messiah Jesus.
--Every day. It is continuous action.

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
--Every day, do not allow sin to reign in your mortal body. It is a battle to be faced every day! Why? Because you are NOT dead to sin. You are very much alive to sin.

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
--This is a command to yield, just as the command in Eph.5 is to yield yourself to the Holy Spirit (continually), which many of us don't. Our members are the members of our body--hands, feet, mouths, etc. Sometimes our mouths still spew out angry words.

And then John's writing Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.[1 John 3:7-10]

In both of these small passages of scripture you can see them telling us how we can tell those who are saved and who are not. Those who lived sanctified lives bear the fruits. Those who do not, will show otherwise. If someone is continuing in sin, they are bearing evil fruit, mon ami.

When Paul corrected the Corinthians they repented.
The question you face is a question of time. It is obvious that the Corinthians were, for some time living a carnal life.
If you sin but one time, that sin is carnal, out of the flesh. Jesus never lost his temper, never cursed, never lied, etc.
The Bible says: "Let God be true, but every man a liar." We all have lied.
Every lie we tell is of the flesh. It is carnal. If I live such a lifestyle it is carnal. But in your theology, or definition when does one lie become "carnal" and give the evidence that I am not saved. When does it turn into a "works salvation"?
Paul spoke to those believers as saved though their lifestyles spoke otherwise. They needed to repent. And they did.
John is speaking of general principles.
Only God knows the heart. John is also speaking to individuals to examine themselves, not with the purpose of criticizing others. He is writing with the purpose here of answering the question: "How can I know that I have an assurance of salvation?" Not, how others can know or how can I know if others are saved. Thus the scripture you are using is out of its context.

Christians can and do sin, that matter is not up for debate. I am sure we both agree with that assessment. However, how long can a Christian reside in sin, live in darkness? If a professing believer dwells in the land of sin, lives a life of debauchery, his life does not measure up to the demands laid out in the bible, it is enough for us to realize something is amiss, mon ami.

"How long" is the question. The bible doesn't say "how long." God doesn't put that limit, and it is up to God, not us. Obviously the Corinthians lived in sin for some time. Paul still considered them believers and didn't bash them in the head telling them they were not saved.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Then Paul wrote 1Corinthians in vain.

I never stated that mon ami.

You cannot write off their behavior so easily. These were saints in Christ. His letter was addressed to the believers not the false teachers or unbelievers. It was addressed to those who actually lived in sinful practices.
Notice what some or even may of them practiced as they came to the Lord's Table:
1Co 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
1Co 11:21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
1Co 11:22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
--All of them were carnal in this "Love Feast," that was taking place before the Lord's Supper. There was a carnal division between the rich and the poor.
The poor went away hungry and the rich were drunk and gluttonous.

You honestly think everyone at the Corinthian church was living carnally? The NIV translates So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, for when you are eating, some of you go ahead with your own private suppers. As a result, one person remains hungry and another gets drunk. Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God by humiliating those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? Certainly not in this matter![vss 20:21] The KJV was a poor rendering on this passage, in my opinion, mon ami. Some were abusing the Lord's table, but it is a bit of a stretch to state that everyone was.

They were divided and Paul pointed this carnal division as well:
1Co 11:33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
1Co 11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.
--They were to come together, in unity, specifically to worship together at the Lord's Table. Satisfying one's hunger was to be done at home. These were carnal Christians and this is but one example. I have given you many. Why do you dismiss them so easily. One cannot throw out this epistle.

Who said I threw this epistle out mon ami? You are attributing things to me I never posted, monsieur. Please stop in doing so. He was addressing the church en toto, mon ami. Yes some were abusing the Lord's table, some were causing divisions, yes some were living carnally. But to say every member was doing this is not what Paul was addressing. He wrote the church en toto to not single the evildoers out. He was telling them they needed to police themselves and weed out those who were living carnally.

The theme verses here is in chapter seven verse one, the first part:
1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me:
--He was answering the questions they wrote to him of the continuing problems in the church. They weren't one time events.
In Romans 6, it wasn't a case of one man taking another to court. It was the American way--taking each other to court on a regular basis. You hear of it every day.
--A cup of coffee spills on a lady in McDonalds--sue because it is too hot.
--"Pants Lawsuit" 2005, Pearson sues a dry-cleaning Co. for 40 million because they lost his pair of pants.
--2014 "Nike" A man in Oregon sued Nike because their shoe product could be used as a dangerous weapon. He was attacked by someone using one.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/7-most-ridiculous-lawsuits-nike-3238861
--No different in Corinth. It had become a practice.
These were carnal Christians. It was a lifestyle.

Again monsieur, Paul was singling out the evildoers, those who were living carnally at the church. He was telling them to 'get the leaven out', in other words.

Let's get this straight! You are not dead to sin. If you were you would be in heaven.
You are not sanctified. If you were you would be in heaven.
You are not glorified. If you were you would be in heaven.
You are not justified. If you were you would be in heaven.
You are not saved. If you were you would be in heaven.

So Paul was wrong in writing that? We are dead to sin because we are no longer serving Satan. We are dead to sin, after the inner being. The soul of man never sins again, because Christ, the Stronger man, now lives in us. Satan attacks the flesh, yes, but when we sin, Christ, through the Spirit, disciplines us.[Heb. 12]

Obviously all of the above terms have a positional meaning and a progressive meaning. We "work out our salvation." Our sanctification is progressive in which we are made holy day by day. We were justified at the time we were saved. But there are some verses that talk about justification as a completed action in the future.

Yes. Agree.

"Dead to sin" in most verses is an ongoing process, not simply a finished state. To believe the latter show a serious lack of Biblical understanding in this subject.
Paul said: I die daily.
Every day he put his body to death. It wasn't a one time event.

The body is not saved, mon ami. It is soaked, encased in sin. That is what dies daily, mon ami. That is why people act carnally in their Christian walk. But to live carnally, is to say the flesh overtakes the soul for extended periods of time. I can not, and will not, agree with you concerning this.

In Romans 6:11, he said "Likewise reckon yourselves to be indeed dead unto sin.
--To reckon involves continuous action. It is an action that must be done every day. It is not a one time event.
A.T. Robertson:
[/B]
This is not something accomplished in the past. It is an imperative to be done now and every day.
(ESV) So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
--Every day.


(Geneva) Likewise thinke ye also, that ye are dead to sin, but are aliue to God in Iesus Christ our Lord.
--Every day.

(ISV) In the same way, you too must continually consider yourselves dead as far as sin is concerned, but living for God through the Messiah Jesus.
--Every day. It is continuous action.

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
--Every day, do not allow sin to reign in your mortal body. It is a battle to be faced every day! Why? Because you are NOT dead to sin. You are very much alive to sin.

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
--This is a command to yield, just as the command in Eph.5 is to yield yourself to the Holy Spirit (continually), which many of us don't. Our members are the members of our body--hands, feet, mouths, etc. Sometimes our mouths still spew out angry words.

Again, this is talking about not living after the flesh mon ami. We may walk after the flesh at points of time in our lives, but we will repent. Every time I sin, God lets me know it. He does not beat around the bush. I repent and get back in line. Those who were living carnally, were not saved, mon ami.


I wanted to stop here. Post would probably be too long.

 

[SovereignGrace]

When Paul corrected the Corinthians they repented.

Yes. Agree.

The question you face is a question of time. It is obvious that the Corinthians were, for some time living a carnal life.

The church, as a whole, was not living carnally, monsieur. I do not think the theme will bear this proof. Yes, some were abusing the Lord's table, some were taking others to court, someone had his father's wife, but not everyone was doing this, in my opinion.

If you sin but one time, that sin is carnal, out of the flesh. Jesus never lost his temper, never cursed, never lied, etc.

That is acting carnally, not living carnally. You are conflating the two terms, mon ami.

The Bible says: "Let God be true, but every man a liar." We all have lied.
Every lie we tell is of the flesh. It is carnal. If I live such a lifestyle it is carnal.

If we repeatedly tell lies, then we are not what we profess. Yes, we have told lies, but to say that a lie at one time is living carnally, is wrong. If someone sleeps with other women repeatedly, one is not what they profess. If one is living with the same sex for extended periods of time, they are not what they profess. They are living carnally because they are devoid of the Spirit, monsieur.

But in your theology, or definition when does one lie become "carnal" and give the evidence that I am not saved. When does it turn into a "works salvation"?

Sinning is not an evidence that one is lost, but failure to repent of it is. If someone is living a life of debauchery, sleeping around, spreading lies, causing dissention in the church, and fails to acknowledge these things and repent? That, to me, is a sign something is amiss, mon ami.

Paul spoke to those believers as saved though their lifestyles spoke otherwise.

He was telling the church to police themselves and 'get the leaven out'.

They needed to repent. And they did.

The one who had his father's wife did, yes.

John is speaking of general principles.

Non, mon ami. non. John was speaking to the fact that our walks are evidence of who we are walking with. If people are living carnally, they are walking after the flesh and not the Spirit, monsieur.

Only God knows the heart. John is also speaking to individuals to examine themselves, not with the purpose of criticizing others. He is writing with the purpose here of answering the question: "How can I know that I have an assurance of salvation?" Not, how others can know or how can I know if others are saved. Thus the scripture you are using is out of its context.

Non, mon ami, non. John wrote things such as The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, No one who is born of God will continue to sin, they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. To live carnally to be a sinner, mon ami.

"How long" is the question. The bible doesn't say "how long." God doesn't put that limit, and it is up to God, not us. Obviously the Corinthians lived in sin for some time. Paul still considered them believers and didn't bash them in the head telling them they were not saved.

Again, he was addressing them en toto. Not everyone had their father's wife, not everyone was abusing the Lord's table, not everyone was taking other to court, &c. To say everyone was is quite the stretch, in my opinion.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Here is an example, monsieur. My wife loves watching 'The Real Housewives of Orange County.' They have one on there named Tamra Judge. She curses repeatedly, has had several 'breast augmentations' been married three times, drinks quite a bit, and yet she said she was saved. And to put the crème on top of the sundae, she said, 'I'm saved, and if you don't like it, suck it.' Real convincing testimony, no?


So she is a carnal Christian just as those in the Corinthian church. Another ex-member(Alexis Bellino) belongs to Jentezen Franklin's church in L.A. She drank a lot, wore provocative clothes to show off her body, and even stated, 'God is my Savior, my husband is my king, and my body-it's sinful.'

So these are two examples of being carnal Christians, no?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Look at Romans 8, monsieur.


Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.[vss 1-4]


We have been set free for the law of sin and death mon ami. Now, this is referring to our inner being that has passed from death to life in our inner being.[1 Jn 3:14] We will never be separated from Him ever again.


Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.[vss 5-8]


This is a stark contrast between saved lives and sinners' lives. Sinners live in accordance to their flesh. Saved peoples, though living in the flesh, having war with their flesh, do not live after their flesh any longer.


You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.[vss 9-11]


At Christ's return, our mortal bodies, our flesh, will be made alive by Christ as our bodies are changed to look like His glorious body.


Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.[vss 12,13]

Again, a stark contrast between the two lives, the lives of sinners and saved.


For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.[vss 14-17]

We are led by the Spirit, even when sinning. Why did I say that? When we sin, the Spirit confronts us, and causes us to repent and get back in line. A lack of repentance is a bad sign, mon ami.

 

[revmwc]

Look at Romans 8, monsieur.


Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.[vss 1-4]


We have been set free for the law of sin and death mon ami. Now, this is referring to our inner being that has passed from death to life in our inner being.[1 Jn 3:14] We will never be separated from Him ever again.


Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.[vss 5-8]


This is a stark contrast between saved lives and sinners' lives. Sinners live in accordance to their flesh. Saved peoples, though living in the flesh, having war with their flesh, do not live after their flesh any longer.


You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.[vss 9-11]


At Christ's return, our mortal bodies, our flesh, will be made alive by Christ as our bodies are changed to look like His glorious body.


Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. if you live according to the flesh, will diet if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

first look what Paul stated:

1 Corinthians 3:

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

What are his words from the KJV, "could not speak unto you as unto spiritual" instaed he spoke to all he was writing to at the Corinth church "as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ."
For us it is instruction on what actual carnality is for we are not all carnal, but Paul didn't state that to the Believers at Corinth. From his words we see he was speaking to them all.

Look at

1 Corinthians 5:-2
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

Notice again he said ye that would be the entire church body that didn't condemn the sin, and therefore all were carnal.

Paul in Romans 8 said

Romans 8:
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

What death is he speaking of here?

We know it is not physical because they were still living.

Nor was it Spiritual because they were believers.

It wasn't positional Death because they were still in Christ as Positional death is the believers new position of being in Christ.

We know it isn't the second death that only occurs after a person who is unsaved dies and spends eternity separated from God.

We know it not being the death of the ability to reproduce physically.

That leaves the last two types

Temporal that is when we sin and haven't confessed that sin. While this could apply they hadn't just lost fellowship with God temporarily.

So that would leave Operational death, that is they had quit operating under the influence of the Holy Spirit and were thus operating in the flesh making them a sarkichos (carnal) believer.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Again revmwc, Paul was addressing that church en toto, en masse. Everyone of them, and consequently us, are to examine our lives to see if we be of the Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.[Jude3]

He was telling them they need to get the leaven out, weed their garden, police themselves. I have said what I have said and if you continue to disagree, it is your right to do so.

 

[SovereignGrace]

There is a difference in stepping in poo and wallowing in it.

 

[Iconoclast]

There is a difference in stepping in poo and wallowing in it.

You have presented the clear biblical case.
Only two men....Under the dominion of the Spirit.
Under dominion of the flesh. No amount of stories or bad interlinear work will change what most everyone sees clearly.

 

[DHK]

There is a difference in stepping in poo and wallowing in it.

And what were the Corinthians doing?

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

A rare sin that they stepped in? Or were they wallowing in something that they had to be told to repent of--so serious that not even the Gentile pagans would do it!

 

[revmwc]

You have presented the clear biblical case.
Only two men....Under the dominion of the Spirit.
Under dominion of the flesh. No amount of stories or bad interlinear work will change what most everyone sees clearly.

Only if you ignore Paul.

1 Corinthians 3:3-5

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

They were all Carnal Paul clearly states.

We too have clear Greek to English that shows 3

In 1st Corinthians 3 we have the believers seen, (pveumatikos) Pnuematikos, spiritual, walking with the filling of the Spirit, and the (sarkikos) carnal a believer walking in the flesh.

Here is another interlinear 1 Corinthians 3:1-3:
*26th ed. Nestles, Allen Text, American Bible Society; New York
**Gramcord Institute, 2218 NE Brookview Dr,; Vancouver WA 98686
*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of 1CO 3: 1 T/ord
kagw 2504 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- I also 1
adelfos 0080 mas ---- voc p noun--- brother 2
ou 3756 ---- part --- -- ------- not 3
duvamai 1410 aor pas ind 1s ---verb to be able 4
lalew 2980 aor act --- -- ---infn to speak 5
su 4771 ---- ---- dat p pronoun you 6
ws 5613 ---- part --- -- ------- as 7
pveumatikos 4152 mas adj dat p ------- spiritual 8
alla 0235 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- but 9
ws 5613 ---- part --- -- ------- as 10
sarkikos 4559 mas adj dat p ------- fleshly 11
ws 5613 ---- part --- -- ------- as 12
vnpios 3516 mas ---- dat p ------- babes (unlearned) 13
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 14
cristos 5547 mas ---- dat s noun--- Christ 15


*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of 1CO 3: 2 T/ord
gala 1051 neu ---- acc s noun--- milk 1
su 4771 ---- ---- acc p pronoun you 2
potizw 4222 aor act ind 1s ---verb give drink 3
ou 3756 ---- part --- -- ------- not 4
brwma 1033 neu ---- acc s noun--- meat 5
oupw 3768 ---- adv --- -- ------- not yet 6
gar 1063 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- for 7
duvamai 1410 imp pas ind 2p ---verb to be able 8
alla 0235 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- but 9
oude 3761 ---- adv --- -- ------- neither 10
eti 2089 ---- adv --- -- ------- yet 11
vuv 3568 ---- adv --- -- ------- now 12
duvamai 1410 pres pas ind 2p ---verb to be able 13


*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of 1CO 3: 3 T/ord
eti 2089 ---- adv --- -- ------- yet 1
gar 1063 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- for 2
sarkikos 4559 mas adj nom p ------- fleshly 3
eimi 1510 pres act ind 2p ---verb to be/endure 4
opou 3699 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- in what place 5
gar 1063 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- for 6
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 7
su 4771 ---- ---- dat p pronoun you 8
znlos 2205 mas ---- nom s noun--- zeal 9
kai 2532 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- and 10
eris 2054 fem ---- nom s noun--- contention 11
ouci 3780 ---- part --- -- ------- no 12
sarkikos 4559 mas adj nom p ------- fleshly 13
eimi 1510 pres act ind 2p ---verb to be/endure 14
kai 2532 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- and 15
kata 2596 ---- ---- acc -- prep--- according to 16
avqrwpos 0444 mas ---- acc s noun--- man 17
peripatew 4043 pres act ind 2p ---verb I am walking 18

We see the believer in fellowship filled with the Spirit (pveumatikws) that pnuematikos and the unbeliever (yucikos) psuchikos natural here:

Interlinear Greek to English 1 Corinthians 2:13-14

*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of 1CO 2: 13 T/ord
os 3739 neu ---- acc p pronoun which 1
kai 2532 ---- adv --- -- ------- and 2
lalew 2980 pres act ind 1p ---verb to speak 3
ou 3756 ---- part --- -- ------- not 4
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 5
didaktos 1318 mas adj dat p ------- taught 6
avqrwpivos 0442 fem adj gen s ------- mankind 7
sofia 4678 fem ---- gen s noun--- wisdom 8
logos 3056 mas ---- dat p noun--- word 9
alla 0235 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- but 10
ev 1722 ---- ---- dat -- prep--- in 11
didaktos 1318 mas adj dat p ------- taught 12
pveuma 4151 neu ---- gen s noun--- spirit 13
pveumatikos 4152 mas adj dat p ------- spiritual 14
pveumatikos 4152 neu adj acc p ------- spiritual 15
sugkrivw 4793 pres act nom p mas-Ptc communicate 16


*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of 1CO 2: 14 T/ord
yucikos 5591 mas adj nom s ------- natural 1
de 1161 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- but/also 2
avqrwpos 0444 mas ---- nom s noun--- man 3
ou 3756 ---- part --- -- ------- not 4
decomai 1209 pres mid ind 3s ---verb to receive 5
o 3588 neu artl acc p ------- the 6
o 3588 neu artl gen s ------- the 7
pveuma 4151 neu ---- gen s noun--- spirit 8
o 3588 mas artl gen s ------- the 9
qeos 2316 mas ---- gen s noun--- God 10
mwria 3472 fem ---- nom s noun--- foolishness 11
gar 1063 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- for 12
autos 0846 mas ---- dat s pronoun he/they 13
eimi 1510 pres act ind 3s ---verb to be/endure 14
kai 2532 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- and 15
ou 3756 ---- part --- -- ------- not 16
duvamai 1410 pres pas ind 3s ---verb to be able 17
givwskw 1097 aor act --- -- ---infn to know 18
oti 3754 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- because that 19
pveumatikws 4153 ---- adv --- -- ------- spiritually 20
avakrivw 0350 pres pas ind 3s ---verb I am examining 21

 

[revmwc]

Again revmwc, Paul was addressing that church en toto, en masse. Everyone of them, and consequently us, are to examine our lives to see if we be of the Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.[Jude3]

He was telling them they need to get the leaven out, weed their garden, police themselves. I have said what I have said and if you continue to disagree, it is your right to do so.

Interlinear Greek to English:
1 Corinthians 3:1 And I brothers not was able to talk to you as to spirituals (Pnuematikokos) but as to Fleshes (sarkikos)as to minors in anointed (Christ).
2 Milk you I give to drink and not food not as yet ye were able but not besides still now ye are able.
3 Still for fleshly ye are the where for in you boiling and strife and two stands not flesh ye are and according to human ye are about treading
1 Corinthians 2:14
14 Soulish (psuchikos) yet human not is receiving the of the spirit of the God stupidity for to him it is and not he is able to know that spiritually it is being examined

And in speaking to the whole church at Corinth he said "I brothers not was able to talk to you as to spirituals (Pnuematikokos) but as to Fleshes (sarkikos)as to minors in anointed (Christ)." Straight from Greek to English. They were Brothers in Christ but Paul could not speak to them as Pnuematikokos (Spiritual) but as Sarkikos (Carnal). As Babes or minors in Christ (Anointed). Clearly the original language shows the church in Corinth was walking in sin as believers. They were not however unbelievers for we Paul did not call them, Soulish (psuchikos) or natural men as 1 Corinthians 2:14 states about the unsaved.

The original shows three types, Saved and walking in the Spirit, Saved and walking in the Flesh and the thrid is unsaved natural and soulish.

Very clear in the original language to the English Language three types of men in two groups, saved and unsaved.

 

[DHK]

The original shows three types, Saved and walking in the Spirit, Saved and walking in the Flesh and the thrid is unsaved natural and soulish.

Very clear in the original language to the English Language three types of men in two groups, saved and unsaved.

If there wasn't that "third type" Paul would have no need of writing such admonitions as:

Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

We all would be walking "in the Spirit" or "having put on the new man" and walking therein 100% of the time. Unfortunately that is not true. It definitely was not true in Corinth, and obviously the believers in Ephesus had some problems also.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And what were the Corinthians doing?

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

The Corinthians? Plural? Wrong, mon ami, wrong. Corinthian, singular. Maybe plural IF the fornicator's step-mother was also a member, but I do not think the passage let's us know one way or other if she was a member. Paul was bashing the church for this issue not dealt with. Yes. But he was referring to those who were goats in their midst. After this issue is resolved, Paul writes his second letter to them rejoicing in what took place.

A rare sin that they stepped in? Or were they wallowing in something that they had to be told to repent of--so serious that not even the Gentile pagans would do it!

We have no idea if this was a problem of extended time or not. But in lieu of other passages I posted, his repentance shows me it was a sin addressed very quickly by repentance of that fornicator via the Spirit.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And in speaking to the whole church at Corinth he said "I brothers not was able to talk to you as to spirituals (Pnuematikokos) but as to Fleshes (sarkikos)as to minors in anointed (Christ)." Straight from Greek to English. They were Brothers in Christ but Paul could not speak to them as Pnuematikokos (Spiritual) but as Sarkikos (Carnal). As Babes or minors in Christ (Anointed). Clearly the original language shows the church in Corinth was walking in sin as believers. They were not however unbelievers for we Paul did not call them, Soulish (psuchikos) or natural men as 1 Corinthians 2:14 states about the unsaved.

The original shows three types, Saved and walking in the Spirit, Saved and walking in the Flesh and the thrid is unsaved natural and soulish.

Very clear in the original language to the English Language three types of men in two groups, saved and unsaved.

Two types, saved or lost, dead or alive, condemned or justified, and not three, monsieur. Jesus said So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. There are no three types. You are either saved or lost, alive or dead, atoned for or unatoned for, exalted or humbled, monsieur.

 

[revmwc]

Two types, saved or lost, dead or alive, condemned or justified, and not three, monsieur. Jesus said So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. There are no three types. You are either saved or lost, alive or dead, atoned for or unatoned for, exalted or humbled, monsieur.

"I brothers not was able to talk to you as to spirituals (Pnuematikokos) but as to Fleshes (sarkikos)as to minors in anointed (Christ)."

Greek to English, Paul made it clear to the Corinthian "brothers" that he was not able to speak to them as to spirituals (Pnuematikos) but as to Fleshes (sarkikos) as to misors in anointed." It cannot be any clearer than that these were all brethren, but the Corinthians were as minors (babes) and walking fleshly as believers.

He made it clear that the unbeliever could not understand God's word or spiritual things in 1 Corinthians 2:14
14 "Soulish (psuchikos) yet human not is receiving the of the spirit of the God stupidity for to him it is and not he is able to know that spiritually it is being examined"
Natural that is men in the old natural sin nature humans can not receive of the Spirit of the God spiritual things to them they are stupidity. Here is the third type the psuchikos natural man.

So which were the Corinthians?
Pnuematikos=spiritual
Sarchikos=fleshly
Psuchikos =natural

Notice Paul didn't say the carnal man can't understand spiritual things but that they were as babes or minors young children who are disobedient. He did say natural that is unregenerate man could not receive the things of God they are foolishness to them.