A carryover thread from 'The Children whom God hath given me .'

[revmwc]

We are nowhere told to mortify an old man or a nature
We are twice told to mortify the deeds of the body .
We are to deprive sin of its power we are to reckon the old man already crucified because it happened in the time past it was a completed action.

This is covered in detail in the third message.

Then you have this:

Galatians 5
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

An unbeliever cannot walk in the Spirit Paul tells the believer to Walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

What is the inference?

The flesh luseth against the spirit, we know that he is not referring to the fleshly body so this must be the old sin nature in us warring against our new man that is the spiritual man. And if one gives in to the temptation of that old sin nature they serve sin that is the flesh and they are are therefore sarkikos, Carnal, fleshly.

Over and over again the scripture shows that our old man is still in us and is warring for control. What died was the domination of this old sin nature, we are dead to the domination of the old sin nature, not to sin nor to the old nature bringing temptation to us.

 

[Iconoclast]

Another problem to deal with:

Paul said:

If the old man was crucified why does Paul say we need to put off the old man which is corrupt, be renewed in the spirit. That again shows the old man is still in us and still wars in us.

Wrong again;
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

It is already done....and like Paul says in Romans....we are to reckon it to be so already.

The believer’s death in Christ terminated his relationship with the old self and the things of the earth. To ensure its safety, the new life is protected and vouchsafed in Christ. As Paul wrote, “your life is hidden with Christ in God” (Col 3:3-note).



The verb ‘hidden’ is a perfect tense, in contrast to the preceding aorist (‘you died,’ drawing attention to the specific occasion of their death with Christ), and stresses the ongoing and permanent effects: your life has been hidden with Christ in God and it remains that way. (O’Brien, Colossians and Philemon, 165)


Eadie writes that the...

the literal meaning of the participle (is) “having put off the old man with his deeds.”...The putting off of the old man, as described by the aorist, cannot be contemporary with the foregoing imperatives, but it precedes them (eg, do not lie). It is a process consummated...These participles (eg "having put off...") are not to be taken in the sense of imperatives, as the first class of expositors virtually regards them, but they unfold a reason why the sins condemned should be uniformly abstained from. Lie not one to another, as being persons who have put off the old man; or, as the participle has often a causal sense (See Johnson's note below)—since ye have put off the old man with his deeds. De Wette says that such an argument is superfluous, but surely the paragraph may conclude as it began, with an argument. The first argument is, ye are dead; and the second contains one of the results of that spiritual death with Christ.



“Since ye have put off the old man with his deeds” The expressive personality—“old man”—has been explained under Eph 4:22-note. It is a bold personification of our first nature as derived from Adam, the source and seat of original and actual transgression, and called “old,” as existing prior to our converted state. This ethical person is to be put off from us as one puts off clothes, and with all his deeds—all the practices which characterized him, and the sins to which he excited. This was a change deeper by far than asceticism could ever reach. For it was a total revolution. Self-denial in meats and drinks, while it prunes the excrescence, really helps the growth of the

 

[revmwc]

Another problem to deal with:

Paul said:


Wrong again;
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

It is already done....and like Paul says in Romans....we are to reckon it to be so already.

The believer’s death in Christ terminated his relationship with the old self and the things of the earth. To ensure its safety, the new life is protected and vouchsafed in Christ. As Paul wrote, “your life is hidden with Christ in God” (Col 3:3-note).



The verb ‘hidden’ is a perfect tense, in contrast to the preceding aorist (‘you died,’ drawing attention to the specific occasion of their death with Christ), and stresses the ongoing and permanent effects: your life has been hidden with Christ in God and it remains that way. (O’Brien, Colossians and Philemon, 165)


Eadie writes that the...

the literal meaning of the participle (is) “having put off the old man with his deeds.”...The putting off of the old man, as described by the aorist, cannot be contemporary with the foregoing imperatives, but it precedes them (eg, do not lie). It is a process consummated...These participles (eg "having put off...") are not to be taken in the sense of imperatives, as the first class of expositors virtually regards them, but they unfold a reason why the sins condemned should be uniformly abstained from. Lie not one to another, as being persons who have put off the old man; or, as the participle has often a causal sense (See Johnson's note below)—since ye have put off the old man with his deeds. De Wette says that such an argument is superfluous, but surely the paragraph may conclude as it began, with an argument. The first argument is, ye are dead; and the second contains one of the results of that spiritual death with Christ.



“Since ye have put off the old man with his deeds” The expressive personality—“old man”—has been explained under Eph 4:22-note. It is a bold personification of our first nature as derived from Adam, the source and seat of original and actual transgression, and called “old,” as existing prior to our converted state. This ethical person is to be put off from us as one puts off clothes, and with all his deeds—all the practices which characterized him, and the sins to which he excited. This was a change deeper by far than asceticism could ever reach. For it was a total revolution. Self-denial in meats and drinks, while it prunes the excrescence, really helps the growth of the

Interlinear Greek to English:

Colossians 3:9-10

9. No be falsifying into one another from out slipping the old human together to the practicing of the same
10. And in-slipping the young the one being up newed into on knowledge according to image of the one creating same.

That is, don't falsify or lie to one another by the slipping out of the old human together to practice of the same.
And in-slipping the young one that is the new man the one being up newed that is the renewed man into knowledge that is spiritual knowledge of the one creating same. So we are to put off the old man and foloow after the new man.

Colossians 3:3 interlinear:

Ye- from died for and the life of you has been hid together to the anointed in the God.

We have died to the domination of the old and our eternal life is hid in the Anointed one who is the God.

Paul declares that we have be freed from the domination of the Old sin nature we are dead to it dominating our lives and we are hid with Crist the anointed of God.

Ephesians 4:22 interlinear:
To be from placing you according to the before more up turning (behavior) the old human to one being corrupted according to the on feelings of the seduction.

We are to place the old man that is the old behavior of the old human which come from the temptations out of our lives. We as Christians are not to allow the temptation from the old human the old sin nature out of our lives, in that

23 To be being up younged yet to the spirit on the mind of you,

We are to bring forth the new man into our spiritually renewed mind.

Now Romans 6:6- interlinear
6 this knowing that the old of us human was together impaled that may be being down unacted the body of the missing (sin) of the no not still (by no means still) to be slaving us to the missing (sin).
7 The for one from dying has been justified from the missing (sin)
8 If yet we from died together to Anointed we are beliveing this and (also) we shall be together living to Him.

Knowing that the old human that is the old sin nature, was impaled or Crucified with Christ is no longer holding us as slaves. What was crucified with Christ, the Domination of that old sin nature. Was it the sin nature itself, not according to Paul in the Greek language it is clearly state that the old of us was held in slavery and that slavery to sin is no more, the unbeliever is a slave to sin, the believer is no longer enslaved but free from its domination. Those who are justified from sin have died with the anointed through believing and therefore we live with Him.

Nothing about not having a sin nature is seen here, what is seen is that slavery to it was put to death for the believer. That we are no longer dominated by the power of that sin nature because we are now new creatures, spiritually born, but Paul made it clear too that in him dwelleth no good thing that is in his flesh.

Therefore Paul states in

Galatians 5:
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

There is a battle going on, the old nature wants control back it lust for control while the Spirit fights against the flesh that is the old nature to hold control in us. What happens we must choose to allow one or the other to dominate our lives each day. Paul therefore tells us to "Walk in Spirit." To make a conscious choice to keep on walking in the Spirit.

Paul through out scripture makes it clear we must choose as believers who we will follow the Holy Spirit or the sin nature that is in us that is our flesh. The beliver who chooses to allow the old nature, the flesh the sakikos or sarkikon to dominate his life is carnal and is following the lust of the flesh!

Scripture is very clear. The new man in us that is the spiritual man who is born at salvation doesn't commit sin, the old fleshly man that is the old sin nature brings temptation and we must fight a daily battle on whom we will serve God or sin. That is daily the Carnal Corinthians were choosing daily to allow the old sin nature to dominate them, Paul cleared that issue up for them.

 

[revmwc]

Another problem to deal with:

Paul said:


Wrong again;
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

It is already done....and like Paul says in Romans....we are to reckon it to be so already.

The believer’s death in Christ terminated his relationship with the old self and the things of the earth. To ensure its safety, the new life is protected and vouchsafed in Christ. As Paul wrote, “your life is hidden with Christ in God” (Col 3:3-note).



The verb ‘hidden’ is a perfect tense, in contrast to the preceding aorist (‘you died,’ drawing attention to the specific occasion of their death with Christ), and stresses the ongoing and permanent effects: your life has been hidden with Christ in God and it remains that way. (O’Brien, Colossians and Philemon, 165)


Eadie writes that the...

the literal meaning of the participle (is) “having put off the old man with his deeds.”...The putting off of the old man, as described by the aorist, cannot be contemporary with the foregoing imperatives, but it precedes them (eg, do not lie). It is a process consummated...These participles (eg "having put off...") are not to be taken in the sense of imperatives, as the first class of expositors virtually regards them, but they unfold a reason why the sins condemned should be uniformly abstained from. Lie not one to another, as being persons who have put off the old man; or, as the participle has often a causal sense (See Johnson's note below)—since ye have put off the old man with his deeds. De Wette says that such an argument is superfluous, but surely the paragraph may conclude as it began, with an argument. The first argument is, ye are dead; and the second contains one of the results of that spiritual death with Christ.



“Since ye have put off the old man with his deeds” The expressive personality—“old man”—has been explained under Eph 4:22-note. It is a bold personification of our first nature as derived from Adam, the source and seat of original and actual transgression, and called “old,” as existing prior to our converted state. This ethical person is to be put off from us as one puts off clothes, and with all his deeds—all the practices which characterized him, and the sins to which he excited. This was a change deeper by far than asceticism could ever reach. For it was a total revolution. Self-denial in meats and drinks, while it prunes the excrescence, really helps the growth of the

Couldn't find the exact post where this was discussed but here are the deaths with scripture a believer who sin is dieing until they confess their sins,

5 Temporal= The believer out of fellowship i.e having not confessed sin,
Romans 8:6, 13; James 1:15, James 2:17, Revelation 3:1

6 Operational No production in time, as a believer you begin to walk in sin again, Carnal and out of the will of God. James 1:22, 2:26; 4:17,

 

[Iconoclast]

Rmac

You did not listen to the second and third message.....did you?

 

[revmwc]

Rmac

You did not listen to the second and third message.....did you?

Heard enough of the first to know we disagree and I won't agree with him

 

[Iconoclast]

Heard enough of the first to know we disagree and I won't agree with him

Of course you disagree that's why I post them so you could listen to them how are you going to know if you agree or disagree till you hear them out

 

[revmwc]

Of course you disagree that's why I post them so you could listen to them how are you going to know if you agree or disagree till you hear them out

The message I brought Sunday had a verse in it as I was preaching that convinced me my view is correct, so no need to listen. The passage Galatians 5:12-14. But mainly verse 13 "For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another."

Excerpt from the message:

I. Paul says just because we are free that is have liberty we are not to use it as and occasion to sin

A. Many do just that

1. Don’t let our liberty cause us to fall back to serving our Old Sinful Nature.
2. The Corinthians were guilty of just that
3. They had gross sin in their midst
4. Paul said they were puffed up about it
5. That is they seemed to show pride in allowing a man to have his father’s wife as mate.
6. Paul said it was sin and they should have been speaking out against it

B. Here he is telling the Galatian’s don’t feel you have freedom to live in sin

1. So we are to not allow our liberty to mean freedom to sin
2. It is not freedom to teach false doctrine’s either
3. Don’t abuse Christian liberty by making it an occasion to the flesh.
4. Don’t indulge yourself with the things of the world that could be an occasion for sinful behavior.

The Spirit spoke to me and said that is it a believer can fall back into sin.

 

[Iconoclast]

The message I brought Sunday had a verse in it as I was preaching that convinced me my view is correct, so no need to listen. The passage Galatians 5:12-14. But mainly verse 13 "For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another."

Excerpt from the message:



The Spirit spoke to me and said that is it a believer can fall back into sin.

After your last three posts....I am sure you need to listen:wavey::wavey:

 

[revmwc]

After your last three posts....I am sure you need to listen:wavey::wavey:

Why it will not convince me the man is incorrect in his assumption or teaching. The message this past Sunday convinced me from Galatians 5:13 that a believer can and some do fall into carnality. They are still saved, still indwelt by the Holy Spirit but are defiling the temple of Holy Spirit. Each and every believer is guilty in some way of defiling the Temple of the Holy Spirit that is our body.
Through what we eat or drink, by gluttony or other things. We must confess each sin we commit, we cannot confess others sins for them. Each sin takes out of the control of the Holy Spirit not out of His indwelling but out of His filling or control of us. We must confess those sins, Israel was required to offer a sin offering each year by the Law. We as believer priest in this the Church age have a unique blessing. We have a sacrifice in Jesus who has paid for sins and all that is required of us to remain in a Spiritual walk is to confess our sins, name them to God and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we don't name them one by one as we know we have sinned we remain out of the will of God, He will not answer our prayers in fact He will chasten us for those sins. Several places Paul speaks of believers being turned over to satan for destruction of the flesh. Yet he said of the man in Corinth that the spirit might be saved. Yes he was involved in gross sin, the church was puffed up but Paul said if God chose to turn him over to satan the flesh would be destroyed that is he would died physically, but the spirit would be saved at the return of Christ.

1 Timothy 1:
18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

These two believers were guilty of blasphemy. Paul says they were turned over to satan to learn not to blaspheme. they were believers or Paul would not have turned them over to satan, as unbelivers they already belonged to satan. They had become carnal.

We see what Hymenaeus was guilty of:

2 Timothy 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

His sin was "saying that the resurrection is past already" which "overthrow the faith of some." For that they were turned over to satan.

Alexander we see:

2 Timothy 4:
14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:
15 Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.

yet another believer and he withstood Paul and challenged his scriptural authority, the Lord rewarded him for his works. Again God chastened him as believer but he was carnal and remained carnal.

 

[Iconoclast]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
Rmac

You did not listen to the second and third message.....did you?

Heard enough of the first to know we disagree and I won't agree with him

Why it will not convince me the man is correct in his assumption or teaching.

I am sorry but there is no other way to say this......

"Why"...it will not convince me

This is a statement of ...UNBELIEF :thumbsup:

If everyone who sits in front of you had this attitude when they assemble each week where would that lead?

You are saying that the word of God cannot convince you????

You are declaring yourself to be un teachable.

This is tragically the anatomy of error being perpetuated.

Correction is offered......but you like the proverbial ostritch will not "look" at it.

earlier you said...what correction? who said it is correction?

Before I address these errors which are being repeated..this bigger issue has surfaced.

 

[revmwc]

Z

Why it will not convince me the man is incorrect in his assumption or teaching.

I am sorry but there is no other way to say this......

"Why"...it will not convince me

This is a statement of ...UNBELIEF :thumbsup:

If everyone who sits in front of you had this attitude when they assemble each week where would that lead?

You are saying that the word of God cannot convince you????

You are declaring yourself to be un teachable.

This is tragically the anatomy of error being perpetuated.

Correction is offered......but you like the proverbial ostritch will not "look" at it.

earlier you said...what correction? who said it is correction?

Before I address these errors which are being repeated..this bigger issue has surfaced.

The man is incorrect in his assumption my fingers went tooo fast in my typing.

 

[revmwc]

Why it will not convince me the man is incorrect in his assumption or teaching.

I am sorry but there is no other way to say this......

"Why"...it will not convince me

This is a statement of ...UNBELIEF :thumbsup:

If everyone who sits in front of you had this attitude when they assemble each week where would that lead?

You are saying that the word of God cannot convince you????

You are declaring yourself to be un teachable.

This is tragically the anatomy of error being perpetuated.

Correction is offered......but you like the proverbial ostritch will not "look" at it.

earlier you said...what correction? who said it is correction?

Before I address these errors which are being repeated..this bigger issue has surfaced.

I tell everyone who sits under me that if they disagree we can sit down and debate. This man is not correct in what he states, the bible in the greek and English show it. Correction needs to be offered to those who will blindly accept a teaching without getting into the study themselves. I dug into it interlinear bibles, commentaries and then as I preach on Galatians 5:13 The holy Spirit says here a man can fall back into sin, they can become carnal.

 

[revmwc]

Why it will not convince me the man is incorrect in his assumption or teaching.

I am sorry but there is no other way to say this......

"Why"...it will not convince me

This is a statement of ...UNBELIEF :thumbsup:

If everyone who sits in front of you had this attitude when they assemble each week where would that lead?

You are saying that the word of God cannot convince you????

You are declaring yourself to be un teachable.

This is tragically the anatomy of error being perpetuated.

Correction is offered......but you like the proverbial ostritch will not "look" at it.

earlier you said...what correction? who said it is correction?

Before I address these errors which are being repeated..this bigger issue has surfaced.

A bigger issued occurred a TYPO! It is fixed now in all but the original post.

 

[revmwc]

Why it will not convince me the man is incorrect in his assumption or teaching. The message this past Sunday convinced me from Galatians 5:13 that a believer can and some do fall into carnality. They are still saved, still indwelt by the Holy Spirit but are defiling the temple of Holy Spirit. Each and every believer is guilty in some way of defiling the Temple of the Holy Spirit that is our body.
Through what we eat or drink, by gluttony or other things. We must confess each sin we commit, we cannot confess others sins for them. Each sin takes out of the control of the Holy Spirit not out of His indwelling but out of His filling or control of us. We must confess those sins, Israel was required to offer a sin offering each year by the Law. We as believer priest in this the Church age have a unique blessing. We have a sacrifice in Jesus who has paid for sins and all that is required of us to remain in a Spiritual walk is to confess our sins, name them to God and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we don't name them one by one as we know we have sinned we remain out of the will of God, He will not answer our prayers in fact He will chasten us for those sins. Several places Paul speaks of believers being turned over to satan for destruction of the flesh. Yet he said of the man in Corinth that the spirit might be saved. Yes he was involved in gross sin, the church was puffed up but Paul said if God chose to turn him over to satan the flesh would be destroyed that is he would died physically, but the spirit would be saved at the return of Christ.



These two believers were guilty of blasphemy. Paul says they were turned over to satan to learn not to blaspheme. they were believers or Paul would not have turned them over to satan, as unbelivers they already belonged to satan. They had become carnal.

We see what Hymenaeus was guilty of:



His sin was "saying that the resurrection is past already" which "overthrow the faith of some." For that they were turned over to satan.

Alexander we see:


yet another believer and he withstood Paul and challenged his scriptural authority, the Lord rewarded him for his works. Again God chastened him as believer but he was carnal and remained carnal.

Needed to correct my post and the edit portion was gone. There could be more typo's please ask before you assume something knowing what I have already been discussing. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Iconoclast]

revmwc


I was unable to answer the last few days not being able to get a good signal in the desert.

Then you have this:
An unbeliever cannot walk in the Spirit Paul tells the believer to Walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

What is the inference?

This is a straight forward statement.....there is no need for "inference/speculation is there?

Of course an unbeliever cannot "walk in the Spirit'....he does not have the Spirit.
Believers are instructed to walk in the Spirit, and then they will not fulfill

the lust of the flesh........lets see where you go off now:thumbsup:

The flesh luseth against the spirit, we know that he is not referring to the fleshly body

No...we do not know this at all! We are in a fleshly body right now that is still able to sin.

There is ;

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body

so this must be the old sin nature in us warring against our new man that is the spiritual man.

this language is not used in scripture on this topic.you are trying to slip it in,so later you can invent a divided new man which scripture does not allow.

here is scriptural language;

13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

And if one gives in to the temptation of that old sin nature they serve sin that is the flesh and they are are therefore sarkikos, Carnal, fleshly.

Now you seek to add the carnal Christian heresy. You have failed to welcome any correction so you insist that there are two men in every Christian when scripture teaches one new man.

You are forced to do this as you hold to this error.....so what you and others do is to seek to confuse the terms into one big jumbled mess.....

old man,old sin nature,carnal man, spirit man, .....why do you do this?

because your false idea falls apart otherwise...that's why. We will see that very clearly in your posts.....I will help you see it Rmac....with anti -ostritch vision:laugh: I will point it out to you in your own words...so you "see it".

What you do after that is between you and God.

Over and over again the scripture shows that our old man is still in us and is warring for control.

Right here you do it..RMAC.....now you seek to switch from....old nature, old sin nature, ....to old man......SNEAKY.....but we see what you and the other guy does......


No where does it show this....at all. it says clearly that the old man is dead.

What died was the domination of this old sin nature,

Now this is a true statement.....the reign of sin has been broken....we are no longer bound by sin. We are still able to sin, but not bound to sin as we were by nature, eph2:1-3before we were regenerated.

we are dead to the domination of the old sin nature,

the old man is dead.

not to sin nor to the old nature bringing temptation to us.

here you confuse the language and the issue again....see it.

 

[Iconoclast]

Needed to correct my post and the edit portion was gone. There could be more typo's please ask before you assume something knowing what I have already been discussing. Sorry for the confusion.

I am not looking for typos or auto-correct mistakes. When I answer using voice to text in the noisy truck....it guesses at what I am saying, but gets distorted by the wind, and the tires bouncing on the road....sometimes it offers curse words, or other forms of foul speech, the punctuation and grammar is off...more than my normal mistakes,lol......

I hope to catch up later today...my hours are low for the week...might be stuck in lower Wyoming for a day or two....

 

[revmwc]

revmwc


I was unable to answer the last few days not being able to get a good signal in the desert.



This is a straight forward statement.....there is no need for "inference/speculation is there?

Of course an unbeliever cannot "walk in the Spirit'....he does not have the Spirit.
Believers are instructed to walk in the Spirit, and then they will not fulfill

the lust of the flesh........lets see where you go off now:thumbsup:



No...we do not know this at all! We are in a fleshly body right now that is still able to sin.

There is ;

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body



this language is not used in scripture on this topic.you are trying to slip it in,so later you can invent a divided new man which scripture does not allow.

here is scriptural language;

13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.




Now you seek to add the carnal Christian heresy. You have failed to welcome any correction so you insist that there are two men in every Christian when scripture teaches one new man.

You are forced to do this as you hold to this error.....so what you and others do is to seek to confuse the terms into one big jumbled mess.....

old man,old sin nature,carnal man, spirit man, .....why do you do this?

because your false idea falls apart otherwise...that's why. We will see that very clearly in your posts.....I will help you see it Rmac....with anti -ostritch vision:laugh: I will point it out to you in your own words...so you "see it".

What you do after that is between you and God.



Right here you do it..RMAC.....now you seek to switch from....old nature, old sin nature, ....to old man......SNEAKY.....but we see what you and the other guy does......


No where does it show this....at all. it says clearly that the old man is dead.



Now this is a true statement.....the reign of sin has been broken....we are no longer bound by sin. We are still able to sin, but not bound to sin as we were by nature, eph2:1-3before we were regenerated.


the old man is dead.


here you confuse the language and the issue again....see it.

Paul is clear

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Here we see we are to put off the conversation of the old man,thus the inference we can still put on that conversation.

The interlinear states it like this:
To be putting off ye according to the former up turning (behavior) the old human the one being corrupted according to teh on-fellings (desires) of the seduction.

That is putting of sinful behavior which comes from the former human (that is the former nature of a human) which is sin, the nature of a man is to sin, we are to put off the behavior of the old sinful man heich is his nature since the fall.


Let's see so what does the old flesh contain other than physical life?

Does the brain house our thought processes?

Do those thought processes exist in us or did they die with Christ?

If they died with Christ then why do we still do sin?

Why does our mind still lust after the things of the flesh?

Is the mind the nature of man?

Is man a totally depraved being since the fall?

 

[Iconoclast]

Let's see so what does the old flesh contain other than physical life?

Does the brain house our thought processes?

Do those thought processes exist in us or did they die with Christ?

If they died with Christ then why do we still do sin?

Why does our mind still lust after the things of the flesh?

Is the mind the nature of man?

Is man a totally depraved being since the fall?

[/QUOTE]


Here is john eadie again;

Delitzsch, Bib. Psych. p. 144. The renewal takes place not
simply in the mind, but in the spirit of it. The dative points
out the special seat of renewal Winer, 3 1, G, a; Matt. xi. 20 ;
Acts vii. 51 ; 1 Cor. xiv. 20.


The mind remains as before,
both in its intellectual and emotional structure in its memory
and judgment, imagination and perception.



These powers do not in themselves need renewal, and regeneration brings no
new faculties. The organism of the mind survives as it was,
but the spirit, its highest part, the possession of which distinguishes man from the inferior animals, and Jits him for receiving the Spirit of God, is being renovated.


The memory, for example, still exercises its former functions, but on a very
different class of subjects ; the judgment still discharging its old office, is occupied among a new set of themes and ideas ;
and love, retaining all its ardour, attaches itself to objects quite
in contrast with those of its earlier preference and pursuit.


The change is not in mind psychologically, either in its
essence or in its operation ; neither is it in mind, as if it were
a superficial change of opinion, either on points of doctrine or
of practice ; but it is " in the spirit of the mind," in that
which gives mind both its bent and its materials of thought.

It is not simply in the spirit, as if it lay there in dim and mystic quietude ; but it is " in the spirit of the mind," in the power which, when changed itself, radically alters the t-ntire sphere and business of the inner mechanism.

(Ver. 24.) Kal ev%vaua6ai TOV xaivov avOpwirov "And
put on the new man." Col. iii. 10. The renewal, as Meyer
remarks, was expressed in the present tense, as if the moment
of its completion were realized in the putting on of the new
man, expressed by the aorist.
The verb also is middle, denoting a reflexive act. Trollop*; and JJurton discover, wo know not by what divination, a reference in this phraseology
to baptism. The putting on of the IH-W man presuppose* the laying ofT of the old man, and is tin; result or accompaniment of this renewal ; nay, it is but another representation of it.


This renewal in the spirit, and this on-putting of t
man, may thus stand to each other as in our systems f theo
logy regeneration stands to sanctificati.n. The " new man M
is *ati/o9, not Wo? recent. The apostle, in r.,1. iii. 1
TOV viov TOV uvaKawovnevov ; here he joins di>avov<r6ai with



344 EPHESIANS IV. 24.

 

[Iconoclast]

Z

The man is incorrect in his assumption my fingers went tooo fast in my typing.

If you did not listen to all three messages you are in no position to judge.

You have not even heard the scriptural teaching. If you think it is in error, you could offer correction....but you both do not even try.