Do Calvinists believe man has free will after salvation?

[Jordan Kurecki]

Do Calvinists believe that man has free will after he has been regenerated?

 

[SovereignGrace]

No one, pre- or post-salvation has a free will.

The will is bound by its nature. God changes the nature, change the will.


I could will to live under water w/o an oxygen tank, but my natures precludes that as an impossibility.

An apple tree only produces apples due to its nature.

An pear tree only produces pears.


Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.[Matt. 7:17-20]

 

[Iconoclast]

No one, pre- or post-salvation has a free will.

The will is bound by its nature. God changes the nature, change the will.


I could will to live under water w/o an oxygen tank, but my natures precludes that as an impossibility.

An apple tree only produces apples due to its nature.

An pear tree only produces pears.


Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.[Matt. 7:17-20]

:thumbsup::applause::thumbs:

After salvation we are free to serve God...we are not free to sin.

Free will is a false philosophical idea and does not exist , our wills being bound by our nature.

God is not free to Act contrary to His wise Holy nature.

In heaven we will not sin.

 

[Reformed]

After salvation we are free to serve God...we are not free to sin.

Actually, after a person is saved they are able to sin and able not to sin (posse peccare, posse non peccare). This is the state Adam was in prior to the Fall. Only after we go to be with the Lord will be not be able to sin (non posse peccare).

 

[Iconoclast]

Actually, after a person is saved they are able to sin and able not to sin (posse peccare, posse non peccare). This is the state Adam was in prior to the Fall. Only after we go to be with the Lord will be not be able to sin (non posse peccare).

Yes i agree with that. I meant this statement in reference to this;
13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

While Paul was speaking about being delivered from some of the ceremonial laws and their trappings and how there is liberty in Christ...he speaks about love fulfilling the law...we are always free to love in the Lord...

While we are still able to sin...we are not really free to as per rom 6:1-3 and here;
16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

 

[SovereignGrace]

:thumbsup::applause::thumbs:

After salvation we are free to serve God...we are not free to sin.

Free will is a false philosophical idea and does not exist , our wills being bound by our nature.

God is not free to Act contrary to His wise Holy nature.

In heaven we will not sin.

I think Jonathan Edwards in 'The Freedom of the Will' nailed this very subject.

 

[JFish123]

https://youtu.be/bDkLUBdvOkw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JonC]

The will is bound by its nature. God changes the nature, change the will.

I don't think that most who advocate "free will" deny that the will is bound by its nature. This is evident in human sciences (psychology, biology, genetics, etc) that readily affirm that truth. This is the difference between the freedom of the will and libertarian free-will.

Do you believe that we have free-will within the confines of our nature?

 

[SovereignGrace]

I don't think that most who advocate "free will" deny that the will is bound by its nature. This is evident in human sciences (psychology, biology, genetics, etc) that readily affirm that truth. This is the difference between the freedom of the will and libertarian free-will.

Do you believe that we have free-will within the confines of our nature?

No. Free means not restraints. We are bound to our nature. We freely operate within those bounds. Clear as mud, no?

 

[Revmitchell]

Who's nature is in charge when a Christian sin's?

 

[Revmitchell]

No. Free means not restraints. We are bound to our nature. We freely operate within those bounds. Clear as mud, no?

Free does not mean absolutely no restraints. It means the ability to make a choice between two or more options based on reason.

 

[Van]

Yet another thread that belongs in the Cal/Arm debate forum.

The question should have been - Does Calvinism teach people have free will after God causes them to be born anew?

First, Calvinists chose to define "free will" as without any restraints, and therefore said no. Everyone operates within the limits God allows.

So the question becomes, does Calvinism teach people operate within the limits God allows before and after salvation. Obviously, if everything is predestined by God's perfect knowledge of the future, then no one operates other than according to their predestination. So the answer remains no. Calvinism teaches exhaustive determinism. They say it is a mystery as to why God is not the author of sin.

 

[DHK]

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

We have a choice here: to allow the world to influence our lives and live as worldly Christians live, or,
Not to be conformed to the world, but rather be conformed to the image of Christ.

We cannot do both. The decision is yours. It is your will, your free will in fact.
It is a choice you must make. We make choices like this every day.

Paul said in 1Cor.15:31, "I die daily." Every day he made that choice. It was of the will.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
--With the mind I serve the law of God. I must use the mind to serve God's law. I must submit. It is a choice made of my own will. I choose out of my will whether to submit to God's will or to submit to my flesh.
As Van said, it is not up to the Calvinist to redefine "will."

 

[Inspector Javert]

Yet another thread that belongs in the Cal/Arm debate forum.

It does belong there.

Obviously, if everything is predestined by God's perfect knowledge of the future, then no one operates other than according to their predestination.

God's perfect knowledge of the future does not "predestine" anything.
It's not CAUSAL.

The rote fact that God perfectly knows something is causally effete. It has no "predestinary" effect.

God's foreknowledge means he is personally CERTAIN of the results of a future action whether it is a hurricane or freely chosen action by a creature.

God is Certain. That doesn't render an action Necessary.

You are ascribing Necessity to an action which is merely Certain.

That is simply not accurate.
That is wrong.
It is a common and forgivable mistake....but it's just simply a mistake.

Stop doing it.

 

[Van]

Hi Inspector Javert, I was not asserting what is true, I was asserting what Calvinism teaches. Calvinism teaches God's knowledge of the future presupposes the future is predestined.

Your view, equally untethered from reality, says God's knowledge of the future does not predestine it. But why is that so? You (too) fall back on "its a mystery."

I do not have a dog in this fight, I just point out the obvious.

 

[Iconoclast]

Free does not mean absolutely no restraints. It means the ability to make a choice between two or more options based on reason.

All persons make choices...that is not the issue.

The issue is the will, not choice.

 

[Iconoclast]

It does belong there.

God's perfect knowledge of the future does not "predestine" anything.
It's not CAUSAL.

The rote fact that God perfectly knows something is causally effete. It has no "predestinary" effect.

God's foreknowledge means he is personally CERTAIN of the results of a future action whether it is a hurricane or freely chosen action by a creature.

God is Certain. That doesn't render an action Necessary.

You are ascribing Necessity to an action which is merely Certain.

That is simply not accurate.
That is wrong.
It is a common and forgivable mistake....but it's just simply a mistake.

Stop doing it.

:thumbs::applause::applause::thumbs:

 

[Inspector Javert]

Hi Inspector Javert, I was not asserting what is true,

I thought you were....
Maybe not.

I was asserting what Calvinism teaches. Calvinism teaches God's knowledge of the future presupposes the future is predestined.

LOL....no, not really. :laugh:
They believe it is determined, yes.
But it isn't his knowledge which predetermines it.

According to the Calvinist view, his WILL determines this future, and his knowledge of it is due to his own knowledge of his own predetermined actions in causing all things.

In Calvinist thought, his foreknowledge of the future is bound into his Causal WILL, and post his decree, he thus, knows the future. But rote knowledge is in and of itself causally effete.

I don't agree with them, but they are at least internally logically consistent, and they aren't stupid enough to think that knowledge (or certainty) is itself causal and therefore the knowledge itself predestines anything.....
It doesn't.

Knowledge predestines nothing.
Knowledge causes nothing.

Not only Calvinists, but a whole host of other non-Calvinists know this to be true. You, and you alone appear unable (I think unwilling personally) to learn this.

Your view, equally untethered from reality, says God's knowledge of the future does not predestine it.

It doesn't.

But why is that so?

That can be answered, are you willing to learn something?

You and I are gambling with a set of weighted dice....

I KNOW/ have perfect foreknowledge of the results of die roles with certainty because I happen to know physical laws, and....well, I'm a cheater who personally weighted the die...

Every time I call a 7....a seven appears....

But, does my KNOWLEDGE predestine the 7?
Is my knowledge causal?
Does my knowledge of future events pre-determine them????

NO, the fact that I'm a cheater who weighted the DIE was the causal, pre-determining factor...............not knowledge.

I also happen to know with near-perfect foreknowledge of future events that you will learn nothing, and continue to insist that knowledge itself pre-determines events...

Now, does my foreknowledge of your inability to accept correction pre-determine or cause your refusal to learn?

No.

Will my perfect prediction of your stiff-necked refusal to accept the teaching of someone who understands clearly better than you do, be what CAUSES you to dig in your heels and double-down?

No, it won't.

The cause of your refusal to learn, and accept correction will be your own pride......

My having read your posts for a long time now gives me near perfect foreknowledge of that future event, but it will hardly pre-destine it.

I'm Certain of the results......but my foreknowledge of your inability to learn doesn't necessitate or pre-determine them....
Your pride and stiff-necked nature will.

I'm just aware of it.

You (too) fall back on "its a mystery."

No, I'm falling back of a little bit of knowledge about the differences between certainty and necessity which you have never learned because you are to proud to do so.

I do not have a dog in this fight, I just point out the obvious.

You are suggesting a patent falsehood, which anyone who bothers to learn the difference between certainty and necessity soon realizes is not only NOT obvious, but is in fact false.

 

[JonC]

No. Free means not restraints. We are bound to our nature. We freely operate within those bounds. Clear as mud, no?

No, free does not necessarily mean no restraints (that is libertarian free will, perhaps, but not free in general). For example, we are free in Christ, but we are not without restraint. I don't think that those who believe in "free-will" define it in the same way (your saying that it does not exist is a straw man argument....for example, I am also constrained physically...no matter how much I would will it, I cannot walk through a brick wall). I think that the issue is really our natures. It may, however, mean the proper restraint....or perhaps it depends on the type of freedom that we are speaking of.....yep...clear as mud.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

According to the Calvinist view, his WILL determines this future, and his knowledge of it is due to his own knowledge of his own predetermined actions in causing all things.

Brother Inspector, it is not just some Calvinists who assert that God's will determines the future, it is the Bible. "...of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:" (Ephesians 1:11)

Brother Joe