Objections to the Teetotalism view on Alcohol

[evangelist6589]

The pastor is doing a series on alcohol. His morning message I agreed with since it was on drunkenness. However his evening message I did not, since it was on Total abstinence. I noted most of his arguments for such a view were outside scripture. I have emailed the pastor some objections two of which are here.

"Wine, especially the red variety, has been studied extensively over many years with impressive findings suggesting it may promote a longer lifespan, protect against certain cancers, improve mental health, and provide benefits to the heart" (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/265635.php).

Psalm 104:14–15 (ESV)
14 You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth food from the earth 15 and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man’s heart.

However I need your help. The one objection I did not raise was the view that wine in the Bible times was only 2% alcoholic and would require lots of drinking to get drunk on. This is a common Baptist View and I could use help in refuting it, thanks.. Note while most Baptist Churches argue for Teetotalism, let it be noted that there are some Reformed Baptist Churches that use wine in communion. I am referencing the book God Gave wine by Kenneth Gentry.

PS- Before you jump to conclusions the pastor did ask for objections which he will address sunday.

 

[Rippon]

Why can't you let some things alone? That issue is not a hill to die on. Let well enough alone. It seems to be your mission to correct all aberrations no matter how minor. You need to lighten up and listen more, rather than confront much of the time.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The cost of heroin is now cheaper than the cost of alcohol.....consequently we have a heroin epidemic ....especially with our youth. Cops and emergency units carry something to counter the overdose problem. Tell him to chew on that one for a while.

 

[evangelist6589]

Why can't you let some things alone? That issue is not a hill to die on. Let well enough alone. It seems to be your mission to correct all aberrations no matter how minor. You need to lighten up and listen more, rather than confront much of the time.

Did you read my post? He asked for objections that he will address Sunday.

 

[Rippon]

Cops and emergency units carry something to counter the overdose problem.

What's that?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I have heard this claim that wine was much weaker in ancient times, but I don't know if anybody really knows, or how they would know. In any case, we don't know whether they sipped the stuff or swigged it like beer.
I don't think it is possible to show from the Bible that to drink a modest amount of alcohol is sinful. That, I think is all you need to say to your Pastor. However, huge numbers of lives have been wrecked by alcohol, and I would have no problem with a pastor saying that abstinence is a wise option; it probably is (Proverbs 23:29-35 is worth a read).

Where I would have a problem is if he were to make any consumption of alcohol a disciplinary matter in the church. That would be legalism.

 

[Rolfe]

What's that?

Narcan (naloxone).

 

[Rolfe]

Evan, I would be careful with this. You do not know who may have sought refuge in a church that holds to that view. You do not want to be the devil's tool to tempt those who have a problem.

Live and let live.

 

[evangelist6589]

I have heard this claim that wine was much weaker in ancient times, but I don't know if anybody really knows, or how they would know. In any case, we don't know whether they sipped the stuff or swigged it like beer.
I don't think it is possible to show from the Bible that to drink a modest amount of alcohol is sinful. That, I think is all you need to say to your Pastor. However, huge numbers of lives have been wrecked by alcohol, and I would have no problem with a pastor saying that abstinence is a wise option; it probably is (Proverbs 23:29-35 is worth a read).

Where I would have a problem is if he were to make any consumption of alcohol a disciplinary matter in the church. That would be legalism.

I have no problem with wisdom neither, but his position is pure legalism.

 

[evangelist6589]

Evan, I would be careful with this. You do not know who may have sought refuge in a church that holds to that view. You do not want to be the devil's tool to tempt those who have a problem.

Live and let live.

I stand up against legalism.

 

[Rolfe]

I stand up against legalism.

Are you sure that your stand is not against your Wife's objection to your alcoholic lemonade?

 

[Rippon]

I have no problem with wisdom neither, but his position is pure legalism.

You meant either.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I stand up against legalism.

You should if they make a mandate of it....still, if it is a point of contention that leads to your wife & having argument, then let it slide....as Rippon says, don't die on that battlefield.

 

[matt wade]

Why can't you let some things alone? That issue is not a hill to die on. Let well enough alone. It seems to be your mission to correct all aberrations no matter how minor. You need to lighten up and listen more, rather than confront much of the time.

Says one of the guys who makes it their mission in life to correct and confront evangelist6589.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Says one of the guys who makes it their mission in life to correct and confront evangelist6589.

So why let it bother you?

 

[matt wade]

So why let it bother you?

The better question would be why it doesn't bother anyone else to see evangelist6589 constantly bullied?

 

[McCree79]

I stand up against legalism.

Depends why the preacher is preaching abstinence from alcohol. If it is to keep your brother from stumbling, I don't have an issue with that. The argument Paul makes in 1 Corinthians 8 could easily be applied to alcohol. "Be careful that your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak..... When you sin agaisnt them this way, you sin against Christ..... Therefore, if what i eat,(what I drink, for our conversation) causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall"

This view would be love for your brother not legalism.

 

[wpe3bql]

John Chapter 2 recounts Jesus's first miracle was to convert water into wine.

John 2:10 would seem to indicate that the wine Jesus created was quite intoxicating since the host of the feast marveled that this "new wine" was even more intoxicating than the wine he'd supplied for the feast.

I can't find anywhere in the Bible where it states that the mere consumption of wine per se is inherently sinful.

Although the Bible does condemn drinking to excess, if the mere consumption of intoxicating wine is inherently sinful, why would Paul in 1 Timothy 5:23 advise Timothy not to drink water but a little wine?

Moreover, prior to the rise of the abstinence movement in the US in the 1800's, most Christian churches in the US used wine when they observed the Lord's Supper.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The better question would be why it doesn't bother anyone else to see evangelist6589 constantly bullied?

I will answer that.....He is not being bullied. He is being corrected.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Depends why the preacher is preaching abstinence from alcohol. If it is to keep your brother from stumbling, I don't have an issue with that. The argument Paul makes in 1 Corinthians 8 could easily be applied to alcohol. "Be careful that your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak..... When you sin agaisnt them this way, you sin against Christ..... Therefore, if what i eat,(what I drink, for our conversation) causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall"

This view would be love for your brother not legalism.

That's an old & misplaced argument that is in fact legalistic in its intent.