Tullian Tchividjian Back in Active Ministry

[annsni]

Interestingly enough...you still do not show a documented statement that states he was having an affair before hers.

That is what was asked for.

God bless.

Who said he was having an affair before she did?

 

[Revmitchell]

First, I do "work with my hands" and do not "walk in idleness." I "aspire to live quietly, and (to) mind (my) own affairs."

Thank you.

Those verses have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Nor do they apply to discussing the start, during, after, impact, results, and future of a ministry or minister who has moral failure.

That the situation revolves around a thread on one individual does not mean that the applications teased out in the discussion are not warnings, guides, and edification for the readers.

There is nothing edifying about this thread. It has turned into gossip like so many of them do. And when you mind the affairs of others, especially of which you have so little knowledge of then you not minding your own affairs. You are minding their.

Now can you support your minding of His business with scripture?

 

[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
Read them all. Still waiting for substantiation of the basis for your condemnation.

You want to tell me where Coral Ridge demanded he stay in their fellowship?

Or admit you are unjustly condemning his as well as the fellowship and their leadership that he has rejoined?

It is not surprising that a Pastor who has resigned...leaves.

How many Pastors will, after public disgrace...stay?

You have not met your burden.


God bless.

Oh my but you are so quick to desire some to "admit" and "unjustly condemn" yet when it is shown that they have not are not willing to "admit" to having "unjustly condemned."

Not even sure what that is supposed to even mean.

Not sure I have desired anyone to admit and unjustly condemn. Perhaps you could quote what I said that gives you that impression.

I gave you a start.

How is producing irrelevant links that do not meet the burden of substantiating the basis of your condemnation...giving me a start?

I am under no obligation to meet what YOU consider is MY burden much less your own.

Then why give the five useless links?

But in point of fact as a Christian you are under obligation not to randomly charge other, nor bring condemnation on others...just because it is your opinion it is warranted.

I am not about to do your work for you.

I am quite sure of that, you are not even willing to do your own work...much less someone else's, lol.

You are welcome to do your own research before you contend.

You seem to think I am dealing with this fellow. I'm not.

I'm dealing with the so called "Christian" reaction to this situation.

And you are providing me with all I need.

You can start with this from the PCA's South Florida Presbytery

I am not going to do your work for you, I am content to let you maintain an image of undiscerning judgment and condemnation that lacks a balanced Christian approach.

Feel free to spout your opinion and condemn this man, his new congregation, and whoever else it suits your fancy.

You can also start with this statement made by a Coral Ridge spokesman:

How is their being sad that he resigned show they demanded that he stay there?

But, you will undoubtedly see some way that those, on this thread who have opposed your views, will have to "admit" to "unjustly condemn(ing).

You are free to show I am wrong.

Show me where Coral Ridge has stated him to be in error to rejoin a former fellowship.

That's all I asked for.

Certainly, it is common of those who are embarrassed and ashamed to cut, run and hide.

I have said that. It is not surprising, and it is not something I would think we couldn't understand.

That is just the same reaction Adam and Eve had.

And?

What makes the true believer

Now you presume to judge this man on an eternal basis.

So he is not a true believer?

different is that they have Christ who will not cleanse them above what they are able to grow through.

Except for this fellow, for, after all, in your opinion...he isn't saved. Is that it?

Who will by such cleansing and forgiveness work all things to the believers good.

Except for the events you deem irreconcilable.

Pride came and destruction followed the footsteps.

And will likely follow all those who garner no fear from a situation like this.


God bless.

 

[agedman]

No one said he had an affair before her. What was said was that we know there have been at least 2 affairs.
Her is number 1
His is number 2

She gave you documentation for those 2 affairs.

Tchividjian had been a controversial choice to head the church after Kennedy's death in 2007. Growing up in Coral Springs, he dropped out of high school and became caught in a life of drinking and hard drugs, according to a 2004 interview in the Sun Sentinel.


"I was a hedonist to the nth-degree," he said in the interview. "I pursued pleasure harder than any individual. I thought the answer was the more fun I could have, the better life would be." (Sun Sentinel)


​

His past came home to roost.


Here is a lesson for every believer.



If you sow wildness (especially as a youth) you must spend a greater amount of energy killing weeds the older you get.


A single weed killing will not do the job.


Just being saved and forgiven does not mean that God will not allow the past to haunt, the days to bring rebuke for the wasted living, and the enemy to be a thorn in the flesh.


The young song writer:

Prone to wander, Lord I feel it,
Prone to leave the God I love.
​

 

[Darrell C]

Who said he was having an affair before she did?

You implied it.

I said...

Now show your justification for questioning his rule of the household.

...to which you answered...

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
Now show your justification for questioning his rule of the household.

God bless.

At least 2 affairs.....
__________________

...to which I responded...

Originally Posted by annsni View Post
At least 2 affairs.....

So where is this documented? I am assuming one of them was prior to hers?

To another member you said (which prompted my question that follows)...

Originally Posted by annsni View Post
Hence why I said "at least". What we DO know is there were at least 2 in this marriage. That IS our business when we discuss what is the Biblical thing to do in response.

So was one of those adulteries before hers?


God bless.

...to which you responded...

His own statement to the Washington Post

“I resigned from my position at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church today due to ongoing marital issues. As many of you know, I returned from a trip a few months back and discovered that my wife was having an affair. Heartbroken and devastated, I informed our church leadership and requested a sabbatical to focus exclusively on my marriage and family. As her affair continued, we separated. Sadly and embarrassingly, I subsequently sought comfort in a friend and developed an inappropriate relationship myself. Last week I was approached by our church leaders and they asked me about my own affair. I admitted to it and it was decided that the best course of action would be for me to resign. Both my wife and I are heartbroken over our actions and we ask you to pray for us and our family that God would give us the grace we need to weather this heart wrenching storm. We are amazingly grateful for the team of men and women who are committed to walking this difficult path with us. Please pray for the healing of deep wounds and we kindly ask that you respect our privacy.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ing-an-affair/

Interestingly enough, he began his response in a right way. He asked for a sabbatical to focus on his family and his marriage. Had he not had an affair, I believe he would have had a lot of support had he continued on this path.

...which gives the implication that the man had an affair before she did.

You had every opportunity to admit you were in error to give the implication and you did not.

And that is why we have to keep the facts straight. To imply guilt on his part is excusing her own sin, and not one person has ever answered my question as to what impact this may have had on his own actions, even though the articles make it clear that this fellow, after coming back from ministering, was heartbroken to learn of the affair.

That does not excuse his guilt, but the curiosity is the dancing around all relevant issues, and presents a witch-hunt mentality that has no consideration for all relevant aspects of the situation.


God bless.

 

[Jerome]

No one said he had an affair before her.

"No one" told us it's his opinion that:

This isn't the first time he has stepped outside the marriage. Perhaps the early instance(s) wasn't (weren't) a full blown affair, but it brought a crack of integrity to the home and an undercurrent of mistrust that the enemy could exploit.

 

[Darrell C]

There is nothing edifying about this thread.

Not sure I can agree with that in totality, as it is important, especially in a matter where Church Discipline is a primary focus, to see the reaction among the ranks.

From what I have seen it seems that some have a tendency to categorize sin and exclude certain sin as directly relevant to the overall situation.

Personally I think we can say the leadership from both fellowships have acted in accordance to Scripture, the one taking action in regards to his sin, the other seeking restoration for the fellow. Coral Ridge plans to place his teaching back into circulation, apparently, when this leaves the media spotlight, so it seems, at least at one point, that they have not written the man off either.

I will agree, though, that to simply talk about this issue without keeping the facts straight is detrimental, especially when false witness and erroneous implications skew the facts.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

I don't see anyone saying that her actions were right. I do believe the subject of this thread is "Tullian Tchividjian back in active ministry" and not "Tullian Tchividjian's wife is back in active ministry".

You do not see yourself evading her role either.

One doesn't have to explicitly say something is right, they simply need to fail to say it is wrong, and that is what has been asked, what role her part played in his fall.

As far as his being restored to ministry, again I mention Paul, Peter, and John Mark.

If God can use men who have sinned, and I would say murder and denial of Christ can be reasonably considered as grievous as adultery, then who am I to sit in judgment over what happens to this fellow in the future.

If Coral Ridge plans to publish his ministry in the future, then apparently they have not written him off as many here have done, and since they are the ones in leadership over this issue, the opinions of others make little difference.

In regards to the thread title, the sin that led to the fall would be, I would think...relevant. And the sin of the wife should be considered relevant as well.

You have erroneously given the impression that this man cheated first and given the impression that he was a failed household leader.

You don't have the right to do that, especially in public.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

"No one" told us it's his opinion that:

Originally Posted by blessedwife318 View Post
No one said he had an affair before her.

"No one" told us it's his opinion that:

Quote:
Originally Posted by agedman View Post
This isn't the first time he has stepped outside the marriage. Perhaps the early instance(s) wasn't (weren't) a full blown affair, but it brought a crack of integrity to the home and an undercurrent of mistrust that the enemy could exploit.

And I for one would like to see a documented statement that supports this charge, or repentance from those who have, whether intentionally or not...borne false witness.

Since it seems that a demand for flawlessness on the parts of those who take leadership positions is the mentality expressed by some, perhaps they can show the same flawless courage and...

...do the right thing.

Like they demand from this fellow.


God bless.

 

[agedman]

My but you don't want to "admit" you "unjustly condemn" others who have posted on this thread.

Yet, you would desire to claim what you perceive is some higher ground from which to use those very words toward other posters.

The precipice from which one would gaze is built from the comedies of their own life.

Is it not true that you want to excuse what he did because his wife had an affair?

Is it not true that you desire that affair to be mitigating the judgment upon his own unfaithfulness?

Is it not true that you have sought that others "admit" some "unjust condemn(ing)" by relying upon your own perceptions and not gathering facts?

Is it not true that when given the opportunity to start your own research into the matter, you first admitted the truth of the facts, but then desire that I continue to do your own fact finding for you?

Is it not true that you attempted to quote as "fact" what I clearly stated what I shared as "my opinion" in a post?

Can YOU "admit" you "unjustly condemned."

 

[Darrell C]

Tchividjian had been a controversial choice to head the church after Kennedy's death in 2007. Growing up in Coral Springs, he dropped out of high school and became caught in a life of drinking and hard drugs, according to a 2004 interview in the Sun Sentinel.


"I was a hedonist to the nth-degree," he said in the interview. "I pursued pleasure harder than any individual. I thought the answer was the more fun I could have, the better life would be." (Sun Sentinel)


​

His past came home to roost.


Here is a lesson for every believer.



If you sow wildness (especially as a youth) you must spend a greater amount of energy killing weeds the older you get.


A single weed killing will not do the job.


Just being saved and forgiven does not mean that God will not allow the past to haunt, the days to bring rebuke for the wasted living, and the enemy to be a thorn in the flesh.


The young song writer:

Prone to wander, Lord I feel it,
Prone to leave the God I love.
​

I was a drug addict and alcoholic, a fornicator and blasphemer of God and Christ.

Shall I be disqualified from a leadership position?

Should I be looked at over raised noses and uplifted eyebrow?

I guess you have always been a flawless Christian? Please, tell me your secret. I am not likely the only one that would like to know how to be perfect.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

My but you don't want to "admit" you "unjustly condemn" others who have posted on this thread.

Yet, you would desire to claim what you perceive is some higher ground from which to use those very words toward other posters.

The precipice from which one would gaze is built from the comedies of their own life.

Is it not true that you want to excuse what he did because his wife had an affair?

Is it not true that you desire that affair to be mitigating the judgment upon his own unfaithfulness?

Is it not true that you have sought that others "admit" some "unjust condemn(ing)" by relying upon your own perceptions and not gathering facts?

Is it not true that when given the opportunity to start your own research into the matter, you first admitted the truth of the facts, but then desire that I continue to do your own fact finding for you?

Is it not true that you attempted to quote as "fact" what I clearly stated what I shared as "my opinion" in a post?

Can YOU "admit" you "unjustly condemned."

And this is why discussing this is pointless.

You can show how I have unjustly condemned.

You can substantiate your charges.

You can show a Biblical Basis for condemning the man, questioning his salvation, and the leadership involved.

And you can explain your statement, "So, she cheated."

I can't do that for you.


God bless.

 

[agedman]

:thumbs:

My opinion and prediction?

Opinion: This isn't the first time he has stepped outside the marriage. Perhaps the early instance(s) wasn't (weren't) a full blown affair, but it brought a crack of integrity to the home and an undercurrent of mistrust that the enemy could exploit.

Prediction: This isn't the last time he will step outside the realm of integrity and righteousness.

OK folks,

I have BOLDED the statements called into question on the thread.

Perhaps some in quick reading missed these.

That is forgivable.

The point being, as the wife said,

"The statement reflected my husband's opinions but not my own. ..." Kim Tchividjian

Drawing conclusions: Can one not consider that there were already cracks in the marriage, that which was not a single incident, and which were unresolved causing a breakdown of respect and honor for the husband?

 

[agedman]

And this is why discussing this is pointless.

So why are you continuing? You said you were done a number of pages, ago.

You can show how I have unjustly condemned.

Do you read your own posts?

You can substantiate your charges.

I don't have to, they are there for any and all to read should they desire.

You can show a Biblical Basis for condemning the man, questioning his salvation, and the leadership involved.

1 - I never condemned the man, I stated that what he did was wrong, that it brought consequences, and death to his ministry. And both I and others have shown "Biblical Basis."
2 - I NEVER questioned his salvation. That is not done on the BB, and if I had I am certain that the moderators would have notified me of the violation.
3 - I do question the leadership involved. Both his leadership, the leadership of the assembly that allowed him to be part of the staff. And there is a Biblical Basis for doing so.

And you can explain your statement, "So, she cheated."

Already done - but apparently ignored.

Short review without derailing the thread is in order.

First, the man is not "given in marriage" the woman is given. There is a transfer of authority so that the girl, young maid, woman is never without some authority as a covering. That is a biblical principle expressed in the marriage ceremony.

Second, when there is the exchange of vows, the vows are not conditioned or conditional upon the spouses actions or lack thereof. The wedding officiator doesn't say, "Will you take this woman UNLESS she is unfaithful, unhealthy, uneducated, can't support you...." The vow is one sided with no escape clause.

Third, throughout the Scriptures and in more specific the NT, the picture of the husband, wife, family is that of Christ and the church. At no time is the husband not to love the wife. There is not a single time in which a husband is given an out because of something the wife did a wrong. Rather, just as I posted from 1 Corinthians:

Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
​

So, she cheated.

Where was that man's love? Certainly it wasn't the Love the Holy Spirit develops in a Spirit filled, wise, believer.

 

[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
And this is why discussing this is pointless.

So why are you continuing? You said you were done a number of pages, ago.

Just one of my many character flaws. I resolve not to waste any more time...then do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
You can show how I have unjustly condemned.

Do you read your own posts?

Apparently I am the only one that does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
You can substantiate your charges.

I don't have to, they are there for any and all to read should they desire.

There is not a single post you can substantiate your charge from.

You know it, I know it, and anyone that reads knows it.

That is why you do not do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
You can show a Biblical Basis for condemning the man, questioning his salvation, and the leadership involved.

1 - I never condemned the man, I stated that what he did was wrong, that it brought consequences, and death to his ministry.

Here are a few quotes you con consider:

To the WORLDLY and the wisdom of THIS world - go find comfort in the arms of another rather than the Savior.

Great advice, if one is not concerned for the eternal destiny of others.

The TBN type folks are always willing to listen to sordid stories and restore the unqualified to ministry.

Nice.

Opinion: This isn't the first time he has stepped outside the marriage.

Biblical?

Prediction: This isn't the last time he will step outside the realm of integrity and righteousness.

You want this fellow to remain fallen. Biblical?

The hedonism of his youth had laid seeds that could no longer be kept underground.

I had a wild youth, do you feel there is no hope for me either?

It isn't a matter of us showing he is not a vial person. He has already shown that as fact.

He has shown he is as fallible as any of us, and succumbed to temptation.

What is not evident is fruits of repentance that remove him from the judgment Scriptures place upon him.

Because you say so? The leadership of both Churches feel he is repentant.

This may sound harsh, but I have personal experience with churches in these type of situations. The unclean do not make the clean nor is there the ability of the unclean to clean.

These are not condemning?

And both I and others have shown "Biblical Basis."

How about a Biblical Basis for this:

Why should it be relevant?

2 - I NEVER questioned his salvation. That is not done on the BB, and if I had I am certain that the moderators would have notified me of the violation.

I asked you about that here:

What makes the true believer is that they have Christ who will not cleanse them above what they are able to grow through. Who will by such cleansing and forgiveness work all things to the believers good.

Now you presume to judge this man on an eternal basis.

So he is not a true believer?

Who is in view here if you are not contrasting the true believer with him? And in light of your other statements that seems to be questioning his salvation.

3 - I do question the leadership involved.

Not sure why, you have not even accurately portrayed what either have said.

Someone writes in an article he was made a "Director," yet the Church itself states he is not in a leader/teaching position.

And it has been pointed out several times that we are called to seek to restore a fallen brother yet you have no such sentiment in your heart. I am glad they do.

Both his leadership,

Quote what they have done that is in error, then a Biblical Basis for your view. You won't because you can't, and that primarily because truth doesn't matter, just that you express your opinions.

You have said he cheated before his wife, said he probably cheated before, and that you think he will do so again.

And you call that a Biblical response?

And have the nerve to question either fellowship's leadership?

Incredible.

the leadership of the assembly that allowed him to be part of the staff.

He is not ministering. Might be good for him to clean some toilets.

And there is a Biblical Basis for doing so.

And I am still waiting to see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
And you can explain your statement, "So, she cheated."

Already done - but apparently ignored.

I must have missed that. Could you point me to the post number that occurred?

Take your time, I won't be holding my breath...

Short review without derailing the thread is in order.

See above.

First, the man is not "given in marriage" the woman is given. There is a transfer of authority so that the girl, young maid, woman is never without some authority as a covering.

I have already addressed that, and like most of the questions I have posed to you it still goes unanswered.

Originally Posted by agedman View Post
Is the man given in the marriage or the woman?

Relevance to the Covenant of Marriage and the Word of God in regards to marriage and adultery?

This is secular garbage.

That is a biblical principle expressed in the marriage ceremony.

Could you give me chapter and verse on that?

Second, when there is the exchange of vows, the vows are not conditioned or conditional upon the spouses actions or lack thereof.

?

So loving, honoring, cherishing...are not actions?

The wedding officiator doesn't say, "Will you take this woman UNLESS she is unfaithful, unhealthy, uneducated, can't support you...." The vow is one sided with no escape clause.

And the relevance to the discussion is...?

Third, throughout the Scriptures and in more specific the NT, the picture of the husband, wife, family is that of Christ and the church. At no time is the husband not to love the wife.

Relevance?

All I have asked is why her sin is overlooked as to how it may have impacted his actions.

No need to go off on a tangent of irrelevant opinions you hold.

Throughout the Old Testament Israel is pictured as a wife, and when she is an adulteress there are serious consequences.

We are not talking about the ideal picture of marriage in our relationship with Christ, we are discussing temporal marriage between two fallible human beings who are both equally guilty of adultery. But because this fellow was a Pastor, his is considered worse.

And that's wrong.

All adultery is wrong, and I can have sympathy for a man whose wife cheats on him, just as I can have sympathy for a wife whose husband cheats on her. But I don't see that in your statement...

"So the wife cheated..."

There is not a single time in which a husband is given an out because of something the wife did a wrong.

I never even intimated that.

He is guilty and that is not even questioned. What is questioned is the deflection when her sin is mentioned.

"It doesn't matter that she cheated first..."

Error.

"It goes back to how he ruled his household..."

Error.

"So she cheated..."

Error.

Rather, just as I posted from 1 Corinthians:
Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

You will never convince me at this point that these words mean anything to you other than a proof-text.

Sorry.

So, she cheated.

Amazing.

Where was that man's love?

Trod under the foot of an adulteress wife's infidelity, maybe?

Certainly it wasn't the Love the Holy Spirit develops in a Spirit filled, wise, believer.

As I said before, how one reacts to something like this is a little difficult for anyone to predict. It is not surprising, to me at least, that first...a Pastor could fall into sin like this. Nor is it surprising that his maturity level and spiritual condition allowed him to sin so egregiously.

What is surprising is the reaction of a few here who, as I also said before, seem more engaged in pharisaical condemnation than a Biblical perspective that keeps in mind any one of us is capable of falling to temptation, and my advice is it might be better to remember that not one of us can say we are any better than this fellow because we have not sinned in the manner he and his wife did.

You throw the Book at him, my friend, and I will study it.


God bless.

 

[agedman]

Just one of my many character flaws. I resolve not to waste any more time...then do.

I had a wild youth, do you feel there is no hope for me either?

I don't know you nor your future. The BB posts are not a great resource for discerning personal walks with the Lord, and posts offer very little insight into the true character of the poster. They are at best little smoky glass pictures of shadow and shade.

If one lives a life that is dishonest before the Lord Jesus Christ then there is little that can expected of Spiritual maturity or growth. It matters very little how smart, or what degree or speaking ability one has. Without a Spirit filled life, lived with purposed dedication of the whole heart, mind, soul, and strength, very little will not be burned up in the judgment fire.

Who is in view here if you are not contrasting the true believer with him? And in light of your other statements that seems to be questioning his salvation.

Again, there is not a time for anyone to question the salvation on the BB. The moderators are rather strict about this rule.

Someone writes in an article he was made a "Director," yet the Church itself states he is not in a leader/teaching position.

And it has been pointed out several times that we are called to seek to restore a fallen brother yet you have no such sentiment in your heart. I am glad they do.

Your view apparently that one has no authority over matters when they are a "director?"

Besides, you don't have a clue the sentiment in my heart. How silly of you to presume that you do.

Quote what they have done that is in error, then a Biblical Basis for your view. You won't because you can't, and that primarily because truth doesn't matter, just that you express your opinions.

My posts are for anyone to read. You are free to draw the conclusions.

You have said he cheated before his wife, said he probably cheated before, and that you think he will do so again.

Would you put the words "in my opinion" before you quote an opinion from me? That would be honest reporting of what I have written.

I must have missed that. Could you point me to the post number that occurred?

nope. You've already shown that you do not desire to research the facts. Rather, you desire to abide in the realm of touchy feelly.

All I have asked is why her sin is overlooked as to how it may have impacted his actions.

I think you need to go back and re-read what you have written. That is not what you ask, but you accused others of being judgmental ...

It demonstrates itself in the following statement:

No need to go off on a tangent of irrelevant opinions you hold.

We are not talking about the ideal picture of marriage in our relationship with Christ, we are discussing temporal marriage between two fallible human beings who are both equally guilty of adultery. But because this fellow was a Pastor, his is considered worse.

And that's wrong.

All adultery is wrong, and I can have sympathy for a man whose wife cheats on him, just as I can have sympathy for a wife whose husband cheats on her. But I don't see that in your statement...

"So the wife cheated..."

Pastors ARE held to a higher standard. :BangHead:

He is guilty and that is not even questioned. What is questioned is the deflection when her sin is mentioned.

There is an bit of obvious excuse begging when a man has to blame and draw attention to the failures of one that he is supposed to love and protect.

Trod under the foot of an adulteress wife's infidelity, maybe?

As I said before, how one reacts to something like this is a little difficult for anyone to predict. It is not surprising, to me at least, that first...a Pastor could fall into sin like this. Nor is it surprising that his maturity level and spiritual condition allowed him to sin so egregiously.

So what in all that is righteous was he doing in the position of such authority?

You must have a very low opinion of what a pastor's life, living, character, and Spirit maturity must be before God.

What is surprising is the reaction of a few here who, as I also said before, seem more engaged in pharisaical condemnation than a Biblical perspective that keeps in mind any one of us is capable of falling to temptation, and my advice is it might be better to remember that not one of us can say we are any better than this fellow because we have not sinned in the manner he and his wife did.

Would you please quote any post that made such a statement of "pharisaical condemnation."

If you cannot, I expect you to recant the statement with an appropriate apology.

You throw the Book at him, my friend, and I will study it.

My, aren't you oh so pious in your ability to discern.

 

[blessedwife318]

You:




Now it's your turn: quote me excusing anyone's sin.

Last post to you until you do.


God bless.

Since you asked so nicely after bearing false witness about me I figure I would oblige you.

Some of these are repeat quotes from my early response to your request but they do lay out context.

Wow its biased to say that people are responsible for their own sin regardless of what those around them have done.

.
Deflection

You just can't seem to grasp the idea that everyone is responsible for their own sin so you claim I'm deflecting there. You seem to want me to say that his wife sins were the cause of his sins and I won't do that because everyone is responsible for their own sin so you said I was deflecting. Well I guess i was deflecting what you wanted to hear.

It does matter that she cheated first, that is something that impacts this situation as a whole. Even if he was not aware of it, her actions surely impacted the relationship.

Again when he is standing before God he will not be able to point to his wife's sins for any reason. He will have to own his sin as his own regardless of anyone's sins around him. That just goes back to my statement that you have so much problem with that everyone is responsible for their own sin. No other person sins matter, just their sins. There is no excuse of their sin.

But, back to what has happened in this situation: do you feel that the wife's adultery could have had a role in how things have transpired?

You just love bringing everything back to his wife. Why? Unless you are trying to make light of his "actions" by pointing to her sin. She is responsible for her sin. She is not responsible for his, no matter how much you try to make her responsible. He is responsible for his sin.

How hard is it to admit that, yes of course...this would have impacted the marriage and played a role in the events that transpired.

And now you flatout say that her sin caused his "actions" making her to blame for his sin.
Just as you have said that she can't blame him for her affair, you need to say that he can't blame her for his affair, instead of what you have been doing, by constantly trying to shift the focus off of him onto her and how she caused this.
Each of them must own their own sin.

On the contrary...no-one's sin is "their sin alone." not when we consider the impact sin has on those around us.

No my sin is my sin alone. No one can be blamed for my sin, anymore then I can be blamed for anyone else sin.
Now if you are talking about consequences I would agree, but considering the whole context of this conversation is you saying her sin "impacted" him to sin it doesn't fly. Her sin is her sin, His sin is his sin.

And the simple question posed in regards to her sin is how that may have impacted the husband's actions.

See above. By the way it should be sin not action but then again if you are trying to make light of sin, its easier to call it something else.

That the wife did not keep her vow has NOTHING to do with whether he should have kept his own.

And yet another statement which shows the bias which is unbiblical and as far as I am concerned worse than counsel we would get from secular counselors that have never turned the first page of Scripture.

The wedding vows are unconditional. My vows to my husband do not have a contingency plan in them. His vows to me do not have a contingency plan. The fact that you think it's unbiblical to keep my Vows to my husband regardless of any hypothetical sin on his part is mindblowing. And you wonder why I think you are trying to cast blame on his wife when you think that him showing Agape love as he vowed to do is unbiblical in this situation?!?!?!

You excused her sin by not directly condemning her actions as culpable and being sin and instead deflecting to his own failure as a leader.

I've already quoted this one a couple of time and then flipped it around for you but one more can't hurt.
"You excuse his sin by not directly condemning his actions as culpable and being sin and instead deflecting to her failures by having an affair."

One doesn't have to explicitly say something is right, they simply need to fail to say it is wrong, and that is what has been asked, what role her part played in his fall.

No one has failed to say she was wrong. Every poster her has called her actions sin. What we are saying is her sin does not excuse his sin, and yet you still argue against those statements. Why? unless you think that in some way her sin does excuse his sin, or at least lessen his guilt?

James 1:14 comes to mind on this issue "But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire."
Our sin comes from ourselves, which is why we are each responsible for our own sin

 

[annsni]

You implied it.

I said...



...to which you answered...





...to which I responded...






To another member you said (which prompted my question that follows)...




...to which you responded...





...which gives the implication that the man had an affair before she did.

You had every opportunity to admit you were in error to give the implication and you did not.

And that is why we have to keep the facts straight. To imply guilt on his part is excusing her own sin, and not one person has ever answered my question as to what impact this may have had on his own actions, even though the articles make it clear that this fellow, after coming back from ministering, was heartbroken to learn of the affair.

That does not excuse his guilt, but the curiosity is the dancing around all relevant issues, and presents a witch-hunt mentality that has no consideration for all relevant aspects of the situation.


God bless.

Wow - you're obsessed with this, aren't you? I see nothing in here that even remotely suggests that I said that he had an affair before his wife.

 

[agedman]

Very good post, blessedwife318. :thumbsup:

 

[annsni]

You do not see yourself evading her role either.

One doesn't have to explicitly say something is right, they simply need to fail to say it is wrong, and that is what has been asked, what role her part played in his fall.

As far as his being restored to ministry, again I mention Paul, Peter, and John Mark.

If God can use men who have sinned, and I would say murder and denial of Christ can be reasonably considered as grievous as adultery, then who am I to sit in judgment over what happens to this fellow in the future.

If Coral Ridge plans to publish his ministry in the future, then apparently they have not written him off as many here have done, and since they are the ones in leadership over this issue, the opinions of others make little difference.

In regards to the thread title, the sin that led to the fall would be, I would think...relevant. And the sin of the wife should be considered relevant as well.

You have erroneously given the impression that this man cheated first and given the impression that he was a failed household leader.

You don't have the right to do that, especially in public.


God bless.

Hmm - the man JUST filed for divorce. I don't think there is repentance and restoration there, do you?