Featured Matthew 18:21-22

Please, forgive me for being unclear; I was referring to the first occurrence of the Greek word rendered "seven times" in Matthew 18:22. I attempting to use it as comparitive to the Greek word translated "seventy times". The point being that there is no directly corresponding Greek word here for "times". Yes, the second occurrence of "seven" in the verse is hepta.

I am looking at the top of page 74 of my Greek & English Interlinear (2008 Zondervan, W. Mounce and R. Mounce, editors) where the Greek word is heptakis in Matthew 18:21 and verse 22 and identified as #2232 [Goodrick-Kohlenberger].

I don't actually own a Strong's, I just used it because it was a handy online source. Admittedly, I am a complete neophyte. I appreciate your patience.

 

Allow me to try to pull this all together.

In my experience many, many English readers have accepted the words "seventy times seven" as a literal mathematical expression while at the same time understanding it has hyperbolic purpose. It is perfectly natural for modern English readers to think in terms of multiplication when they see the word "times" between two numbers. It makes sense to us; but it shouldn't.

And I think we all have heard intelligent pastors and sound Sunday School teachers expound upon the text "seventy times seven" by first trotting out the math formula 70 x 7 = 490 before moving on into the deeper spiritual meaning of unlimited or infinite forgiveness. It seems right to us; but it isn't.

The problem is that the word "times" does not mean multiply here. In fact, the word "times" is never meant as a mathematical operator in the entire New Testament. "Times" simply means something like instances, cases, or occurrences. Jesus is made to equivocate in English when He is misunderstood to say "seven times" (with the meaning of occurrences) followed by "seventy times seven" (with the meaning of multiplied).

A reader does not need to know any Greek to unravel this problem. When Matthew 18:22 is read with proper comprehension "seventy times seven" is actually incomplete and vague in English. Substituting another word for "times" sharpens this ambiguity: "seventy instances seven" or "seventy occurrences seven" sounds very odd in English. We wouldn't know quite what to think about it. TCassidy has confirmed that this is not a mathematical equation but an idiomatic expression. So, it should sound strange to us.

Additionally, there just is no direct support in the Greek for the word "times" (despite that the two words "seventy times" is a legitimate translation of that one Greek word). The last two Greek words in the verse refer to "70-something" and "7" without any math function present. Thus the reason some other versions have arrived at something like "seventy seven times". Although it avoids the appearance of multiplication it is guilty of virtual addition. Not better.

So, although the translation in the KJV (and many other versions) of "seventy times seven" is accurate of itself, it is also confusing and misleading in this context. Perhaps a rendering of "seventy sevens" or "seven seventies" would be better.

 

That there is no specific Greek word for "times" was covered. That ἑβδομηκοντάκις can be translated "seventy times" was also covered. The point was that the English word "times" does not mean multiply here; yet, it can be easily confused for multiply.

 

Not offended. I stated that "seventy times" was a perfectly good translation. But I also contend that the word "times" means occurrences or instances and never multiply in the whole English NT (KJV and others).

So, could you please explain why you insist that it MUST be translated only by the English word "times" and cannot be something like "occurrences" or "instances"?

You seem to eqaute the suffix -κις means multiply. Do you also think the first appearance in 18:22 of "seven times" (same suffix -κις) means "seven multiplied"? If so, "seven multiplied" by what other number? There is no other number. (Same for Peter's question in 18:21)

There can be a difference:"70 multiplied by 7" specifies the mathematical operator, while "70 times" followed by "7" does not. It simply reads "70 times" then a "7" as in "70 occurrences, 7" or "70 instances - seven". I think you are proving my point that it is difficult to escape the idea of multiplication when presented with the word "times" between two numbers.