Featured Body or not?

While most would see an application of the first quote to the First Coming and the results which transpired after His Ascension, we still do not see all Prophecy fulfilled.

The Tribulation has not occurred, the Return of Christ has not occurred as described in Revelation 19, the First Resurrection has not occurred, and the Millennial Kingdom in which many prophecies are fulfilled has not occurred.

As to making "quickly" mean the events had to have been fulfilled soon after the writing with no future application, we see the same word used here:


Revelation 2

King James Version (KJV)

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.


Revelation 22:20

King James Version (KJV)

20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.


Now, do we impose rapid fulfillment in the former as well? Sure. Does it mean that the time is short? Now really, it is simply stating that the Lord will come quickly in both.

Prophecy is always fulfilled as it is written, and we can say that when the events described in Revelation begin to unfold, the Lord will truly come quickly, and will not tarry, as the writer of Hebrews states:


Hebrews 10:37

King James Version (KJV)

37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.


The "coming quickly" refers to that time, just as we see here in Hebrews.


God bless.

 

You actually hold to the same shallow, lame, dispy 'explain away' of 'that generation' of Christ's day? You might as well be a dispensationalist for the violence you do to the underlying continuity of the scriptures.

https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/jesus-on-the-rapture-of-the-chruch.93734/page-3#post-2134589

 

In the past, preterist vs futurist donnybrooks no matter what was said, no matter what scriptures were cited concerning a "carnal" second coming of Christ by the futurists it was always rebutted by the full preterists with words to the effect that such passages had to be spiritualized and/or allegorized to be understood.

So a stalemate ensued.

Here is an example or two of which Tom or Grasshopper or ??? may answer to:

Luke 22
16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
...
28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

etc, etc, etc...

Though this next one is about the Day of the Lord, it is one that the preterists make an allegorical tap dance around (not that we don't do in a similar manner elsewhere) to prove that it has already happened circa AD70.

2 Peter 3
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Here we go again Tom! Really glad to see you are well.

HankD

 

BTW - 2 Peter Chapter 3 begins with the context of a literal flood with literal water on the carnal earth.

HankD

 

Where is the Sheep and Goat Judgment in the First Century?

You realize the Prophecy continues through ch.25, right? Do we see the Sheep gathered in the First Century?

Or scattered.

The generation in view are those that will witness the events described in Matthew 24-25.


God bless.

 

Just wanted to throw in a cross reference in regards to the melting and burning:


Nahum 1King James Version (KJV)

1 The burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.

2 God is jealous, and the Lord revengeth; the Lord revengeth, and is furious; the Lord will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.

3 The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the Lord hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

4 He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers: Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth.

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.


Is this considered to refer to that time, the present, the future, or all of the above?

Was there a past fulfillment?

Do we have to conclude only the passing away of the earth can be in view?


God bless.

 

Couldn't you get past the first sentence or two of my link? Did the long words hurt your head?
Try reading a little further.
You might also try https://marprelate.wordpress.com/2012/02/23/the-forgotten-doctrine-loving-the-return-of-christ-2/

 

'Write the things that thou hast seen, and the things that are, and the things that are about to come after these things; Rev 1:19 YLT

What is the, "present," the things that are, of the Revelation?

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 2 Peter 3
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, 2but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3 ==== That is of the promise, of his coming,

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night 2 Peter 3 ===== The day of his coming?

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying, Rev 1

Is the day of the Lord a twenty four hour day or could it be as a thousand years?

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thes 4:16,17
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev 20:4
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Verse 7

How does the book of Revelation read, beginning in chapter 2?

Rev 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

And there two more chapters after chapter 20.

Things that are to come, after the Lord's day?

 

You wanted to know what I believed and I told you!... Also that I am an Amil, Historical Preterist... Then you want to tear it apart which you are free to do... But I will not get on here and argue my point of view... That is not my way... You can argue with kyredneck as he also as I believe holds to my historical views!

If you're hanging your hat on the late date theory for the writing of Revelation it's weak and doesn't stand up to scrutiny at all. The book was written along about 68 A.D.. I suggest you do more research.

I will bow out for now but will be watching from the sidelines... Your views differs from mine... But I have been on the BB to long where discussions have turned into a battle and that I will not participate in... Brother Glen

 

Not sure why you quoted this, Hank.

Just to clarify, it was given as a cross reference:

Nahum 1

King James Version (KJV)
1 The burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.

2 God is jealous, and the Lord revengeth; the Lord revengeth, and is furious; the Lord will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.

3 The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the Lord hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

4 He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers: Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth.

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.



2 Peter 3:10-12

King James Version (KJV)

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Both have a context of the judgment of God. The point sought to be made is that we can place an application in the Old Testament, as well as a future application. But to impose that this means that the world passes away at the Lord's Second Coming denies the account Revelation gives us. It denies what Matthew 25 teaches as well, seeing that at that time believers remain alive.


God bless.

 

Hi Darrell,

Actually this 2 Peter fiery passage takes place at Revelation 20 AFTER the 1000 year reign of Christ.

The second coming of Jesus Christ to the earth (carnal earth) starts at the rapture and ends 1007 years later according to my choice of dispensational interpretation.

I don't think that this interpretation is as far fetched as the preterist brethren who believe it's already happened circa AD70.

HankD

 

That's the point, Hank, that we have multiple fulfillments of certain Prophecy.

I agree that ultimately the fulfillment is when the earth in fact passes away, but, when Christ returns there will be a restructuring, lol, of the earth.

For example:


Zechariah 14

King James Version (KJV)

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.


Revelation 6:13-15

King James Version (KJV)

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;


God bless.

 

Yes, Zechariah 14 is one of my favorite prophetic passages of the second coming and I certainly agree that "carnal" earth will be cleansed of sin, blood and the affects of our abuses to it.

Then (1000 years later in my view) a new heavens and a new earth - eternal.

Thanks for your timely responses.

HankD

 

The reason I asked in my post concerning the length of time of the day of the Lord.

 

Tom, I am about to begin a study of the Book of Hebrews. What other commentaries (contemporary) if any do you suggest other than Owen's? I have already purchased Peter O'Briens The Letter to the Hebrews.

Thanks
HankD

 

My friend Tony Denton wrote a commentary on Hebrews. I would be remiss if I did not mention that to you. Now although he is a preterist like me, I still believe that there is much there that you would appreciate. (and even though we are both Preterists we definitely do not see eye to eye on origins, although I don't know how that view wold be relfected in his Hebrews commentary).

BTW, I know you asked for modern writers but have you checked out Matthew Henry's? The Hebrew section, if memory serves was actually written by William Tong.

I have been meaning to participate sooner, but my wife and I have been swapping illnesses. I am slowly getting better. What little time I have been spending writing had been in a preterist group, but I was kicked out. Apparently they maybe think I am a closet futurist ; )