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Featured The NIV Is In Good Company

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Oct 24, 2015.

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  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Utter nonsense has been thrown about regarding the use of inclusive language. Some prattle on and on about the sanctity of retaining man and he when reference is made to be people in general. Well, I would like to give some examples were the NIV does not stand alone among Bible translations in this regard. The translation methodology of the NIV and other Bible versions is not driven by some feminist plot. Simply, these translations give renderings in clear, natural language. It's the vernacular we speak in the second decade of the 21st century.

    Genesis 6:7
    NIV : "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created."
    NLT,CEB : human race
    GW : humans
    LEB, NET : humankind
    ISV,NAB,NRSV : human beings

    Genesis 9:6
    NIV : "Whoever sheds human blood..."
    NET,ISV,GW,CEB : human blood
    NLT : human life
    NRSV : the blood of a human
    NAB : the blood of a human being

    Exodus 32:28
    NIV : "...three thousand of the people died."
    NLT,GW : people died
    NRSV,NAB : people fell
    LEB : persons fell
    WEB : there fell of the people
    CEB : people were killed

    2 Samuel 24:15
    NIV : "...seventy thousand of the people...died
    CEB,NAB,NLT,NRSV : people died

    James 1:12
    NIV : "Blessed is the one..."
    NET : the one
    NRSV : anyone
    LEB : the person

    James 1;20
    NIV,NLT,NET,LEB : human anger
     
    #1 Rippon, Oct 24, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2015
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  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I gave two examples from the book of James. I will give some more here. Remember, this is not exhaustive --just representative. There are wordings in other versions that also use inclusive language in these passages.

    1:7
    NIV,LEB,Mounce,NAB,NET : that person

    1:19
    NIV,NET,LEB : someone

    2:20
    NIV,LEB,ISV,ESV : foolish person
    NRSV : senseless person
    Mounce : shallow person

    2:24
    NIV,NRSV,NET,NAB,Mounce, LEB,ISV,GW,ESV,CEB : a person

    3:8
    NIV,LEB,ESV : no human being
    WEB : nobody
    NRSV, NASU,Mounce,ISV,CEB,GW : no one

    5:16
    NIV,NLT,WEB, NET, NAB, mounce, LEB, ISV, HCSB, ESV, CEB : righteous person

    5:17
    NIV,NRSV, NET, NAB,LEB : human being
     
    #2 Rippon, Oct 24, 2015
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The problem with your assertion though is that there is an evangelical feminism at work , trying to undercut the support of the bible for just male leadership, and they want to get the text amended to allow for one to have the option to allow for women pastoring for example...
    And that many have problems with the bible being "parochial" in its tone, but God Himself has made the call in male leadership, and female subordination in a biblical contex, despite misguided efforts to get that changed to reflect" current cultural understandings"
     
    #3 Yeshua1, Oct 26, 2015
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  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Who is the source of that unfounded information?

    Do you have a problem with the NET,Mounce and LEB agreeing with the NIV in using inclusive language in my examples so far? If so, why?
     
    #4 Rippon, Oct 26, 2015
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  5. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    In undergrad since all my religion classes used the NRSV, I liked the mediating approach it took between formal and dynamic translation. However, I was always turned off by the lengths it would go for gender neutrality. I then fell in love with the NIV because it embraces a similar mediating translation philosophy and handles a lot of passages better than the NRSV. I especially like the improved accuracy of the NIV2011.
     
    #5 robustheologian, Oct 26, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2015
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Even though it at times seems to be watering down the clear intentions of the lord in regards to male headship/authority in the home and the local church?

    And wants to at times take the meaning of the Son of man as referring to Jesus, and instead make it apply as more like a common term for people in general?
     
    #6 Yeshua1, Nov 30, 2015
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  7. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    I've read through it completely and never got that from it. I'm sure you're referring to it's effort to be gender neutral. Those passages where gender neutrality is expressed is the same translation you would getting translating from Greek and Hebrew yourself. The new NIV has been getting a lot of heat from people regarding that but it's not what everyone is making it out to be. Even in 1 Timothy 2:12, where it uses 'assume' is a preferable translation. First, the primary definition of αὐθεντεῖν would be to literally assume to have authority. Second, if one takes 1 Timothy 2:12 to mean "have" authority, the word "assume" would mean that too. Third, (and this is a personal preference) it's very similar to the KJV's translation "usurp".

    Now this I can understand. While the NIV2011, does much better than the TNIV in these passages, there are still places where it would have been better to place "son of man" in the actual text and note it's possible gender neutral meaning in the footnotes.

    It must be said that there's NOT ONE English translation that gets gender translation right all the time. With that being said, I think it's unfair to hold the NIV to a standard that no other translation meets.
     
    #7 robustheologian, Nov 30, 2015
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  8. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Correction : It tries to be gender-accurate.
    That is right.
    But critics try, don't they. Double standards and lack of consistency are their stockn'trade.
     
    #8 Rippon, Dec 1, 2015
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  9. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    You are unable to receive correction. I have demonstrated how false your claims have been since Day One. But you still persist in your falsehoods.

    You tell me me how these verses from the NIV support your baseless charges.

    1 Cor. 11:3 : but I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of every woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
    1 Cor. 11:8 : For man did not come from woman, but woman came from man.
    1 Cor. 11:9 : neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
    Titus 1:6 : An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe.
     
    #9 Rippon, Dec 1, 2015
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  10. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I'll make citations from How To Choose A Translation Foe All Its Worth by Fee and Strauss.

    "It can hardly be denied that the psalmist is speaking inclusively rather than exclusively in Psalm 8. He does not mean, 'what are males...' but rather 'what are human beings...' All commentators agree that 'enosh and ben'adam are generic references to humanity.

    "Most commentators also agree that this same meaning applies to the use of the psalm in Hebrews 2:6-8. The author is not claiming that the psalm refers exclusively to Christ, but the destiny of humanity as expressed in the psalm...The reference to [them] in verse 8 is not to Jesus but to humnkind. Though man's (=humanity's) original destiny was to be crowned with glory and honor and for creation to be subject to him (see Gen. 1:28), 'at present we do not see everything subject to him.' In its present fallen state humanity has not achieved its true destiny.

    "...Psalm 8, both in its Old testament context and in its context in Hebrews, is about God's intention for humanity. Jesus fulfills this destiny by acting as the true human representative. The plural references in both Psalm 8:4 and Hebrews 2:6-8 capture this sense well." (pgs. 106-107)
     
    #10 Rippon, Dec 1, 2015
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  11. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Like Robust, I had an NRSV in my sole undergrad religion course. The old Oxford Annotated. Which I still keep around as it's my only hard copy of the Apocrypha.

    Later, I was looking for a study bible which was less liberal, and the HCSB had just come out. I bought a copy, and it's been my constant companion since.

    After looking through the OP, I'm still happy with my choice.
     
    #11 Rob_BW, Dec 1, 2015
  12. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Hmm... You may be correct in your assertions. I am a NIV user and have used the 2011 version a little. What I do not understand is how the ESV can render these same verses with a male authority rather than being gender neutral. Is the Greek really that neutral in this matter.
     
    #12 evangelist6589, Dec 1, 2015
  13. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Ex. 2:11
    one of his people ESV NIV HCSB
    one of his own people GW ISV NET

    Numbers 1:16
    of their ancestral tribes ESV CEB HCSB NAB NET NLT NRSV ISV NIV
    of their ancestors' tribes LEB GW

    Matthew 12:31
    will be forgiven people LEB NAB ESV
    people will be forgiven GW HCSB NET NRSV
     
    #13 Rippon, Dec 1, 2015
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  14. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    Context is king.
     
    #14 robustheologian, Dec 1, 2015
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Interesting though that neither jesus nor His inspired apostles would take that viewpoint, as they all would see jesus as being the fulfillment of the prophecy of daniel and the psalms concerning one like the Son of man!
     
    #15 Yeshua1, Dec 14, 2015
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  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    isn't the simple truth though that some have insisted that the traditional renderings into English have implied and assumed a male headship pattern, which they will not support?

    They wish to have it gender neutral, and yet the lord Himself has a pattern of male headship in both the church and the home?
     
    #16 Yeshua1, Dec 14, 2015
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  17. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    You have a habit of stating false things on a regular basis.
     
    #17 Rippon, Dec 14, 2015
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you saying the God does not have a pattern of headship, for male leadership in the family and church then?
     
    #18 Yeshua1, Dec 26, 2015
  19. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    That's another lie.You consistently utter falsehoods.

    You know exactly where I stand because I have made myself quite plain with you for a decade. You "ask" the same questions over and over. I answer with clarity. You "ask" again. I answer. I am sick and tired of your stale routine. The LP is worn out.
     
    #19 Rippon, Dec 26, 2015
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  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I know where you stand my brother, but can you honestly say that all of the translators see this traditional male head ship/leadership to be biblical though?
     
    #20 Yeshua1, Jan 12, 2016
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