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Geocentricity: What's It Hurt?
- Thread starter Aaron
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The Little Drummer Boy: Who has he hurt?
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Like that the knowledge of heliocentricity offers no relief to the suffering of mankind, nor any enrichment to his peace and prosperity, so a geocentric view would offer no impedence to relief or enrichment.
The knowledge of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness has other sources, and the implications of heliocentricity or geocentricity are otherwise and beneficial only to philosophers and apologists.
The knowledge of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness has other sources, and the implications of heliocentricity or geocentricity are otherwise and beneficial only to philosophers and apologists.
Or forum trolls.
What are you--living in the 17th century?
I'm living today, and today folks speak of the heroism of Galileo and the ignorance of Luther and Calvin.
Galileo might justly be venerated for the invention of the telescope, but it isn't that. It's that he entertained a heliocentric view of the solar system. (And he wasn't the first. http://www.astronomyfactbook.com/timelines/heliocentrism.htm )
I can talk all day about how Western civilization has benefitted from the teaching and heroism of Luther, Calvin and Wycliffe, but I can't think of one thing that has been truly helpful that is dependent upon a cosmology opposite of theirs.
Pasteur: I never would have come up with the germ theory of disease if not for understanding heliocentrism.
Joseph Bazalgette: It never occurred to me that sewage could be diverted from London until I saw the sun rise and said, "You fool! It's the earth that's rotating!"
Plato: Once I questioned my teacher's cosmology, I understood The Republic.
An ancient Roman: Ye gods are flying 'round the sun! Concrete!
Galileo might justly be venerated for the invention of the telescope, but it isn't that. It's that he entertained a heliocentric view of the solar system. (And he wasn't the first. http://www.astronomyfactbook.com/timelines/heliocentrism.htm )
I can talk all day about how Western civilization has benefitted from the teaching and heroism of Luther, Calvin and Wycliffe, but I can't think of one thing that has been truly helpful that is dependent upon a cosmology opposite of theirs.
Pasteur: I never would have come up with the germ theory of disease if not for understanding heliocentrism.
Joseph Bazalgette: It never occurred to me that sewage could be diverted from London until I saw the sun rise and said, "You fool! It's the earth that's rotating!"
Plato: Once I questioned my teacher's cosmology, I understood The Republic.
An ancient Roman: Ye gods are flying 'round the sun! Concrete!
The space program provided plenty of technological inventions that changed the world we live in.
Wrong science stunts innovation just as wrong theology can stunt one's relationship to God.
Galileo changed not only how we viewed the stars and planets around us but changed how we interpet the bible.
Rob
The thing about truth, is you can use it to test theories.
Like using Mercury's orbit around the sun to test Einstein's theory of general relativity.
One could write a book on all of the applications of general relativity. Explaining the time offset of satellites orbiting Earth is one example. You can read more about this practical use at this link.
http://physicscentral.com/explore/writers/will.cfm
Like using Mercury's orbit around the sun to test Einstein's theory of general relativity.
One could write a book on all of the applications of general relativity. Explaining the time offset of satellites orbiting Earth is one example. You can read more about this practical use at this link.
http://physicscentral.com/explore/writers/will.cfm
More accurately, the space race accelerated some semiconductor technology. The need for solid state components and the need for high vacuum systems in which to produce them. WWII did that too, but what we call "space age technology" was well on it's way for doing work here on earth, and no one was thinking of the solar system. The space race gave it a boost.
Gaming and iphones drive it now.
But what did going to the moon really do for us? What drove the space race? Why did the U.S. succeed where the U.S.S.R. failed?
Wrong science stunts theology, and the wrong theology stunts science and medicine.
But some knowledge doesn't help technology, and some mistaken notions are no hindrance.
Now you're getting there. How so?
Take Christ's words here: "he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good."
Basically, it's useful to the observations of astronomers to test theories.
I grant that. But how does the knowledge of black holes and quasars help us? Only in the understanding of our place in the cosmos, and that is why I said heliocentricity is useful only to philosophers and apologists.
You keep using the word "truth."
Is Christ's statement ". . . he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good . . ." true?
Is GPS useful to more than just astronomers? Because it took the theory of general relativity to make it work. A theory tested in part by heliocentricity.
And all directions are arbitrary. Based off of east and west, up and down, lat and long. If I'm laying on the grass looking up at the sky, the sun rises above me. When I bake bread, the dough rises up. Are the walls of Jericho falling down now lies just because down is a direction dictated by latitude, longitude, and matter accelerating towards the earth due to gravity?
If you think heliocentricity somehow makes all of our language lies, well, that's your opinion. I do not hold to it.
And I don't see how starting an apologetic method based on denying truth will be effective. How do you think someone will respond to your assertion that the statement "God is the lord of all" is an objective truth when you then go around attacking heliocentricity.
There are plenty of philosophies claiming truth is only what's true for the individual. I believe that objective truth exists. Your mileage may vary.
I'm sure GPS is indispensible for the operation of ICBM's.
But GPS is geocentric.
Just saying.
They are not arbitrary, they are relative.
Now you're waxing philosophical. See? That's what you've done with your knowledge of a heliocentric solar system. It's not a valid direction in which to go with it, but that's the conclusion at which you've arrived.
GPS is the best answer you can come up with as far as any real helpful technological or medical advance. So, should we send Garmins to the third world? How helpful do you think Sudanese families will find them?
I'm not saying that astronomers' observations are of no use. They are, but they seem more useful to the philosopher and the apologist than they are to the medical doctors. And the reason for that is the reason stars exist: to discern times and seasons.
Yes, ". . . he maketh his sun to rise . . . " is true. You don't think Christ understood the heliocentricity of the solar system? He created it. But in relation to us, the sun rises. And God makes it rise.
I never said that. That's the presupposition you brought to the discussion. And that's the conclusion you were conditioned to form. The Materialist says the earth goes round the sun. See? The Bible is wrong. There is no purpose or meaning. It's all in your head.
The theist says, the earth goes round the sun. So? Where I'm at, the sun rises and sets, and God wanted me to see that, and thank Him for it, and see that He makes it rise not only on the good, but on the evil as well, which means my love and piety is not reserved only for my brothers, because His love and piety is not reserved only for His children.
I haven't attacked it at all. I just asked what good is it, and taking it off the pedestal erected by Darwinists. I think what you see under attack are the fallacious conclusions and premises to which materialistic and Dawinistic made astronomical leaps.
The following passages can best be supported with which model, Heliocentric or Geocentric?
Joshua 10:
12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. 14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel.
2 Kings 20:
8 And Hezekiah said unto Isaiah, What shall be the sign that the Lord will heal me, and that I shall go up into the house of the Lord the third day? 9 And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the Lord, that the Lord will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees? 10 And Hezekiah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees: nay, but let the shadow return backward ten degrees. 11 And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the Lord: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.
Notice in Joshua we are told the sun stood still, not that the earth did but the sun. If the Sun is Stationary then it always stands still. The interlinear states, Verse 13, “and he is standing still the sun and the moon he stayed…and He is staying the Sun in the middle of the Heavens and not He rushed to the set of as day flawless”
2 Kings 20: verse 11, “…the shadow ten degrees backward…” interlinear, “…Yahweh and He is reversing the shadow in the steps thereof…”
Both sound as if the Sun was reversed from an orbit not the Earth. Now think about God reversing the earth.
What would the oceans do when the earth was reversed?
Would they continue with their currents or would they immediately stop and reverse?
Does the Law of centrifugal force come in? “…centrifugal force, action-reaction force pair associated with circular motion. According to Newton's first law of motion, a moving body travels along a straight path with constant speed (i.e., has constant velocity) unless it is acted on by an outside force. For circular motion to occur there must be a constant force acting on a body, pushing it toward the center of the circular path. This force is the centripetal ("center-seeking") force. For a planet orbiting the sun, the force is gravitational; for an object twirled on a string, the force is mechanical; for an electron orbiting an atom, it is electrical…The centrifugal force is often mistakenly thought to cause a body to fly out of its circular path when it is released; rather, it is the removal of the centripetal force that allows the body to travel in a straight line as required by Newton's first law. If there were in fact a force acting to force the body out of its circular path, its path when released would not be the straight tangential course that is always observed.” So if that force were removed from the earth to hold the Sun still and to move the shadow back ten steps then would those things in motion, rivers, lakes and oceans continue in motion and fly out of their circular path. Yet if the sun were held or moved from an orbit around the earth those same rivers, lakes and oceans would remain in motion. Seems to me as if the Bible can be best supported with the Geocentric model.
Joshua 10:
12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. 14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel.
2 Kings 20:
8 And Hezekiah said unto Isaiah, What shall be the sign that the Lord will heal me, and that I shall go up into the house of the Lord the third day? 9 And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the Lord, that the Lord will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees? 10 And Hezekiah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees: nay, but let the shadow return backward ten degrees. 11 And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the Lord: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.
Notice in Joshua we are told the sun stood still, not that the earth did but the sun. If the Sun is Stationary then it always stands still. The interlinear states, Verse 13, “and he is standing still the sun and the moon he stayed…and He is staying the Sun in the middle of the Heavens and not He rushed to the set of as day flawless”
2 Kings 20: verse 11, “…the shadow ten degrees backward…” interlinear, “…Yahweh and He is reversing the shadow in the steps thereof…”
Both sound as if the Sun was reversed from an orbit not the Earth. Now think about God reversing the earth.
What would the oceans do when the earth was reversed?
Would they continue with their currents or would they immediately stop and reverse?
Does the Law of centrifugal force come in? “…centrifugal force, action-reaction force pair associated with circular motion. According to Newton's first law of motion, a moving body travels along a straight path with constant speed (i.e., has constant velocity) unless it is acted on by an outside force. For circular motion to occur there must be a constant force acting on a body, pushing it toward the center of the circular path. This force is the centripetal ("center-seeking") force. For a planet orbiting the sun, the force is gravitational; for an object twirled on a string, the force is mechanical; for an electron orbiting an atom, it is electrical…The centrifugal force is often mistakenly thought to cause a body to fly out of its circular path when it is released; rather, it is the removal of the centripetal force that allows the body to travel in a straight line as required by Newton's first law. If there were in fact a force acting to force the body out of its circular path, its path when released would not be the straight tangential course that is always observed.” So if that force were removed from the earth to hold the Sun still and to move the shadow back ten steps then would those things in motion, rivers, lakes and oceans continue in motion and fly out of their circular path. Yet if the sun were held or moved from an orbit around the earth those same rivers, lakes and oceans would remain in motion. Seems to me as if the Bible can be best supported with the Geocentric model.
Depends upon the context, but now your personifying it?
It's true that the sun set yesterday. I saw it. So?
K. But that's not what I said, unless you think philosophy and apologetics to be of marginal good to someone.
Wait a minute, weren't you just making great claims about the theories of relativity?
Relative to your frame of reference.
But that's an interesting question. The concepts of the cardinal directions have their roots in time immemorial. But it wasn't on the basis of a magnetic compass, nor chosen arbitrarily. Without a map or compass, how could someone be given directions? By the movement of the sun, shadows, and the individuals frame of reference.