John Owens on 1 Cor 6:9-10

[kyredneck]

You picked the fight when you picked on the Owen quote in my signature

You asked for it by presenting it as though it was straight from the Bible.

In a nutshell your error is to continually threaten the elect with the prospect of eternal damnation. There is no such danger for the elect. If you were an Arminian espousing this 'hell fire damnation' I wouldn't even give it a second thought. But as one who supposedly holds to Sovereign Grace your obsession with warning the elect of the dangers of neglecting their sanctification and going to hell presents a stark contradiction.

 

[JonShaff]

Interesting thoughts in this thread

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[Internet Theologian]

I have to agree that the author of the OP went on sort of a rant without contextually understanding what John Owen (not 'Owens' by the way) stated. I think what brother Iconoclast is saying is between true converts and false conversions, not of warning the elect of damnation 'if'.

I was also confused with the signature all along until I googled it.

 

[JonShaff]

I almost Googled it, but decided to wait for a thread to be created instead

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[Internet Theologian]

I almost Googled it, but decided to wait for a thread to be created instead

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Just goes to show you Calvinists are more proactive than nons.

 

[JonShaff]

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

So we know this to be an axiom, but to what degree or "speed"?

A. We know it is Constant

B. We know it's a blessing

C. We know it's the Bishop and Shepherd of our Soul, Jesus Christ, doing the Work

D. Is it external? Internal? To What degree?

......I could go on all night....


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[JonShaff]

Just goes to show you Calvinists are more proactive than nons.

I thought I was being Calvinistic by taking your word for it

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[Iconoclast]

You asked for it by presenting it as though it was straight from the Bible.

In a nutshell your error is to continually threaten the elect with the prospect of eternal damnation. There is no such danger for the elect. If you were an Arminian espousing this 'hell fire damnation' I wouldn't even give it a second thought. But as one who supposedly holds to Sovereign Grace your obsession with warning the elect of the dangers of neglecting their sanctification and going to hell presents a stark contradiction.

Kyred
I agree there is no danger at all the elect .
I don't know how much clearer I can say that but we do not know who the elect are do we.
. Do you know infallibly who are the elect so how can you think it's okay to ignore warning passages that the Apostle Paul himself put in the Bible .
Paul wrote more about election, predestination than anyone other than the Lord JESUS.
I agree and enjoy most of what you post all the time this one area is going to be an area where we're not going to agree I can tell you that.

 

[kyredneck]

warning passages that the Apostle Paul himself put in the Bible

Once again for the umteenph time:

It is my position and has always been my position that 'the majority', 'the most', 'the many', 'hoi polloi', are frivolous with their insertions of 'perishing eternally' into passages where it is NOT the intent as concerns the redeemed.

We've been through this before. God judges His people in this time realm, never eternally.

You insert, you force, eternal consequences for the elect into passages where it is not the writer's intent.

 

[Iconoclast]

Once again for the umteenph time:



You insert, you force, eternal consequences for the elect into passages where it is not the writer's intent.

I'm trying to look at it like you looking at it but I can only see a little of what you're talking about
and the rest I see very clearly the other way so unfortunately my posts are going to have to be a source of annoyance to you

 

[kyredneck]

warning passages that the Apostle Paul himself put in the Bible .

I'm trying to look at it like you looking at it

27 but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected. 1 Cor 9

What's he talking about? Eternal consequences? Is it conceivable to you that Paul could end up spending 'infinity in a pain amplifier'? Do you think eternal consequences is what Paul is referring to by being 'rejected'?

 

[JonShaff]

"kyredneck,



What was planned in eternity unfolds in TIME.
A person whom God has elected to save from eternity past is sure to be saved .Jesus dies for them and seeks and saves them.
they are certain of heaven from the Divine side.
That being said.....they go from death to life in time.
If you are speaking of remaining sin and our duty towards it that is one thing.
We are not told who is going to be saved so from our POV it is an ongoing process.



If indeed this man became saved...it was not when he was living in incestial fornication.

A christian in sin loses confidence and assurance that he is God's child.
A professed christian who practices sin has no right to believe he is a christian. He needs to examine himself as to if he is in the faith.



Agreed.

So when was David saved? Before or after Bathsheba...before or after Uriah? When was Abraham saved? Before or after hagar...before or after lying about Sarah? When was Peter saved? Before or after denying Jesus...before or after showing partiality? When was...

You see where I'm going with this?

 

[kyredneck]

So when was David saved....Abraham saved.....Peter saved....

16 Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt save both thyself and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4

So when did Timothy and his flock finally get 'saved'?

 

[JonShaff]

16 Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt save both thyself and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4

So when did Timothy and his flock finally get 'saved'?

You either don't like the term "saved" or you are adding to my point...(a lot of assuming here lol)

 

[kyredneck]

You either don't like the term "saved"

No, you're right there with hoi polloi and totally gom up the term 'saved'.

It is NOT synonymous with the heavenly birth.

Saved means delivered. Salvation means deliverance. And by far the majority of the times it's used in the scriptures it is in reference to this realm of time, not eternity.

 

[JonShaff]

No, you're right there with hoi polloi and totally gom up the term 'saved'.

It is NOT synonymous with the heavenly birth.

Saved means delivered. Salvation means deliverance. And by far the majority of the times it's used in the scriptures it is in reference to this realm of time, not eternity.

but did you know what i meant?

 

[JonShaff]

Acts 4:12
and there is not salvation in any other, for there is no other name under the heaven that hath been given among men, in which it behoveth us to be saved.'

Eternity or time?

 

[kyredneck]

Acts 4:12
and there is not salvation in any other, for there is no other name under the heaven that hath been given among men, in which it behoveth us to be saved.'

Eternity or time?

Who is the Spirit through Peter speaking to?:

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders,
9 if we this day are examined concerning a good deed done to an impotent man, by what means this man is made whole;
10 be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel,....

What does the Spirit, again speaking through Peter, mean here?:

40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

It's NOT in reference to the heavenly birth.

 

[JonShaff]

Who is the Spirit through Peter speaking to?:

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders,
9 if we this day are examined concerning a good deed done to an impotent man, by what means this man is made whole;
10 be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel,....

What does the Spirit, again speaking through Peter, mean here?:

40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

Why didn't you just answer my question?

 

[kyredneck]

Why didn't you just answer my question?

Time. In both instances.

Yet those saved in time are assuredly saved eternally.