The Casual gospel

[JonShaff]

I see. I will not press you on it then.
I would suggest your examine what some churches use as a confession of faith.
It helps to keep a degree of unity among that local assembly. Prospective members could read it over to see if they are in agreement with it or not.

I will let you know what we have in place. Thanks for pushing me to figure these things out.

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[JonShaff]

I talked to several about joining and I mentioned about having a questionnaire to fill out and they started to back up. Kinda odd.

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[Iconoclast]

But back to this....even if he questioned....that still may not change the fact that they are attending or whether or not they are in the Kingdom of God.

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Well having people visit and even attend for awhile is fine. No one is questioning that.
The question is do you believe in regenerate church membership, and if so do all "professing members" vote in the church business meeting?
Would a "believing 4 year old" vote in a business meeting?

 

[JonShaff]

Just because a 4 year old has faith doesn't mean they can understand business matters.

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[Iconoclast]

http://vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html

http://www.fba.org/main/statement-of-faith

http://founders.org/library/dagg-vol2/ch2/
here are some examples

 

[Iconoclast]

Just because a 4 year old has faith doesn't mean they can understand business matters.

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If they cannot understand business matters...is it possible they cannot understand Chrisitian teaching?

 

[JonShaff]

http://vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html

http://www.fba.org/main/statement-of-faith

http://founders.org/library/dagg-vol2/ch2/
here are some examples

Thank you...we have these in place, but to what extent I don't remember.

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[JonShaff]

If they cannot understand business matters...is it possible they cannot understand Chrisitian teaching?

I wouldn't equate the two. Do you have any children?

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[DHK]

Okay... a profession of faith consisting of what?
Does your church have a statement of faith?
Do you use a confession of faith?

In our church a person becomes a member upon: a, their profession of faith in Christ, and b, their baptism by immersion upon their profession of faith in Christ. IOW, salvation precedes baptism, and baptism becomes the door to the church.

Yes the church has a statement of faith.

No, the church does not have a confession of faith. Why should it?
In place of those archaic out-dated archived confessions we have a "constitution," in which our statement of faith is fully expanded and explained as well as the entire purpose and function of the church.
Before one becomes a member he must agree to the constitution of the church.

 

[kyredneck]

What good works was there in the life of the thief on the cross did you see that you could declare him save.

Excellent point.

 

[kyredneck]

If they cannot understand business matters...is it possible they cannot understand Chrisitian teaching?

To be wise in business matters requires intellectual maturity and experience. To love the Lord requires that one follow their heart, no intellectual prowess required.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

What are you saying here, friend?

Exactly what I wrote.
If some people are thinking that I said that God cannot save four year olds, then they have not read my post properly.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Ask them. They are on this board posting. Some of them are pastors. They have posted their testimonies before. Or you could do a search. I am not feeding you a lie. To even question "these 4 year-olds" publicly like this, is to question the salvation of those posting and insult them publicly. I hope they are reading this thread.

Oh, bully tactics. Nice. As if MM came out and questioned one's salvation specifically. He's talking in general terms and I happen to totally agree with him. You seriously should end twisting words of people and texts of Scripture.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Read Martin's reply to me:

I had previously referenced four year olds on this board who testify that they were saved at that age, and others at ages 5 to 7. Do you also charge them with easy believism and, as is being done here, question their salvation?

No one is questioning any person on this boards salvation but you're certainly self-aggrandizing.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I always wondered....why is it so bad to have our salvation questioned anyway? Is it for fear of an insufficient answer?

That right there!

People think if they doubt their salvation that it must be from Satan and they will always blame it on him. Some need and should doubt their salvation, and quit blaming it on Satanic devices. It could stem from Wholly Other.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I agree. It is not about age.
And if it is not about age then it is about comprehension. The gospel is a simple message.

No one can understand the Gospel without the Spirit of God and His regenerating work. It is not about intellectual comprehension as you assert.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I talked to several about joining and I mentioned about having a questionnaire to fill out and they started to back up. Kinda odd.

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Maybe that is the cart before the horse? Brother, listen to their profession of faith, then if appropriate baptize them. In other words get the Biblical part done first, forget that questionnaire thing til later, establish them in the faith if they've been converted first and foremost. Now, your church covenant may have it the other way around, I do not know, but if so I'd throw that part out.

 

[Internet Theologian]

In our church a person becomes a member upon: a, their profession of faith in Christ, and b, their baptism by immersion upon their profession of faith in Christ. IOW, salvation precedes baptism, and baptism becomes the door to the church.

OK.

Yes the church has a statement of faith.

This is no different than below, but is typically a lite version. So you're practicing the same thing as a confessional because that is what a statement of faith is.

No, the church does not have a confession of faith. Why should it?

Oh yes you actually do.

In place of those archaic out-dated archived confessions we have a "constitution," in which our statement of faith is fully expanded and explained as well as the entire purpose and function of the church. Before one becomes a member he must agree to the constitution of the church.

Confessions are about as archaic and outdated as the theology they most adequately relate and represent. They serve in the same role, and on a much higher plane than the typical and shallow statement of faith. Your practice is the same as those who use a confession, yours being a much thinner and mere perfunctory document.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Excellent point.

Actually he had shown that the Christ of God had been revealed to him, and he showed an apologetic defense of His Person. I'd call that some mighty good works right there on the cross.

 

[JonC]

That right there!

People think if they doubt their salvation that it must be from Satan and they will always blame it on him. Some need and should doubt their salvation, and quit blaming it on Satanic devices. It could stem from Wholly Other.

Not only that, brother, but we are told to text our faith to see if we are among the elect. I think that this is actually something we all need to do at various times in our lives. Test our faith.

Too often it seems that churches reassure people of their salvation based on a past decision. But our assurance that we have believed is not wrapped up in the security of the believer. Scripture offers one assurance that we have come to know Christ. And that is by looking at our lives, our works, and discerning their origin. Do we exhibit the works of the Spirit or the flesh. At this juncture, between having been saved and our final salvation, it is mixed as are passing from glory to glory (continually) as we are being sanctified in and through Christ. But if the work of the Spirit is not present in a way we can discern then we have no assurance of salvation.

My conclusion is that we can never tell as a fact whether or not someone is saved just based on their declaration of salvation. But we also are wrong to give someone an assurance of salvation apart from a biblical assurance. And that is based on discernible evidences. For the thief on the cross, it was that amazing statement of repentance and acknowledgment. With us, initially, salvation may be evidenced by confession of Christ and profession of faith. But we need to be careful that we do not assure a person of something he or she does not possess.