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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Make available the last 3 years archives and I will post all your posts that you did not delete as yet as proof
Indeed. I ask you: What are you blathering about this time?
Search away.
Better yet, search the Bible. It will do more good for you.
Search the Bible and show me one verse where it commands the unbeliever to "repent of all his sins."
Will you do at least that much for me.
 

JamesL

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So you have rejected a reasoned explanation and a scholarly definition of "repentance."
And you have accepted a definition which is somewhat heretical. Ironic......


"The Bible does not teach for an unsaved person to repent of all their sins. That is not what repentance is."
The above statement is what you vehemently disagree with.
he's embraced a very conflicted notion that God super-imposes upon the human FIRST to give the human spiritual life, but that God requires acts of contrition by the human before life is granted.

Ehhh?
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Yes I did... All My sins are known to God....so when I asked God to have mercy on me for all my sins He did. The God I worship says He will do that very thing.
8 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

The fact that you seek to go to an absurd example to try and cover the fact that you deny repentance is grace for all Christians is totally ludicrous.....Cautious:(CautiousThumbsdownThumbsdown
I see. By your testimony here are you saying you don't believe in repentance now?
You simply ask for mercy instead. There are many that ask for mercy and yet never repent. Pharaoh asked for mercy after each and every plague but never repented.
I don't deny repentance. I never have. But in this post it seems like you have denied repentance, or perhaps you would like to clarify your position.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
here from A BAPTIST CATECHISM WITH COMMENTARY ...By WR DOWNING...question 90
Quest. 90: What is evangelical or saving repentance unto life?
Ans: Evangelical or saving repentance unto life is the gift of God,
the immediate consequence of regenerating grace, and is
evidenced in turning from sin to God.
Mk. 1:15. …The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand:
repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Lk. 24:47. And that repentance and remission of sins should be
preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 11:18. When they heard these things, they held their peace, and
glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted
repentance unto life.
Acts 17:30–31. 30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but
now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31Because he hath
appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness
by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given
assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
See also: Gen. 6:6; Ex. 32:7–14; 1 Sam. 15:28–29; Job 42:6; 2
Chron. 7:14; Jer. 31:19; Jonah 3:4–10; 4:2; Matt. 3:2, 7–8; 11:21;
12:41; Mk. 2:17; Lk. 11:29–32; 13:1–5; 15:7; 16:30; 17:3; Acts 2:38;
3:19; 5:31; 8:22; 20:21; 26:20; Rom. 2:4; 11:29; 2 Cor. 7:9–10; 2 Tim.
2:25; Heb. 6:5–6; 12:17; 2 Pet. 3:9; Rev. 2:5, 16, 21–22; 3:3, 19.
COMMENTARY
As with saving faith, an understanding of evangelical or saving repentance
is vital to understanding biblical Christianity. In modern, evangelical
Christianity, repentance has largely become a lost doctrine. It is either
unscripturally made necessary to salvation by being connected to baptism,
175
made synonymous with faith, being merged with faith, or yet relegated
basically to the Jews, until it is simply no longer relevant.
The term “repentance” signifies a change of mind. Soteriologically, it is a
change of mind or heart concerning sin which results in a turning from sin to
God, attended by a subsequent change of lifestyle (Matt. 3:7–8; Mk. 1:14–15;
Acts 17:30–31; 20:21; 26:19–20).
Repentance applies both to the unconverted and converted, i.e., when one
is converted, he repents from his sins and sin (Lk. 24:47; Acts 17:30–31).
After conversion, as a believer, because he still must deal with the
manifestations of indwelling sin and remaining corruption, he continues to be
repentant throughout his Christian experience (1 Jn. 1:7–10; 2:1; Rev. 3:1–3).
The use of the term “repentance” in the English Bible may result in some
confusion because there are two different Gk. terms translated as such. E.g., in
Matt. 27:3–5, Judas is said to have “repented” [was filled with remorse or
regret] then later, “went and hanged himself.” Judas did not repent in the
sense of changing his mind or turning his life from his sin to God in the
context of his wicked deed, but was rather only filled with remorse or regret
[metamelomai]. True, saving repentance will have its share of remorse, regret,
sorrow or grief, but will also be a change of mind [metanoia] concerning sin,
a confession of it, and then a departure from it by the enabling grace of God.
There are three necessary elements which pertain to true evangelical
repentance. Note that there is a picture drawn in Scripture for us in the
repentance of Nineveh (Note the relationship between Lk. 11:29–32 and
Jonah 3:1–8): first, the intellectual element: sin admitted, or conviction.
Second, the emotional element: sin abhorred, or contrition. Third, the
volitional element: sin abandoned, or conversion. Repentance is from sin and
toward God—a change of the mind and will. It is an act of the will, enabled
by grace, to forsake and turn from sin. True, saving repentance culminates in
conversion. Have you turned from your sins—all sins and sin as the ruling
principle of your life—to the Lord Jesus?
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I see. By your testimony here are you saying you don't believe in repentance now?

I don't say that here or anywhere but that never stops you from inventing such falsehoods in mind which is evil affected against the brethren here. I told you a dozen times now...I do not need you trying to be my spokesman. you post what you want, and I do not need you trying to "think, or infer< or Understand" such nonsense as you come up with...

I don't deny repentance. I never have.
You have in this thread and if the last three years posts are available , we could see your denials...even RM spotted them

But in this post it seems like you have denied repentance, or perhaps you would like to clarify your position.

I denied no such thing and the readers will see your deliberate falsehood. It seems like that only in your mind but that is not a shock at all.


You are a desperate person trying to pull this out of this post. If you attempted to teach what you post here in any church I attend, they would forcibly remove you from the front of the building and show you the door.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What's the matter? Cat got your tongue?
This is the catechism I subscribe to. You cannot begin to answer it...it is solid biblical teaching that eludes you.... I do not post it for you because you do not desire an answer...so I post it to help others who desire biblical teaching. This link and the link to the 1689 offer correct teaching which is like an Oasis after reading your barren fruitless posts.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Indeed. I ask you: What are you blathering about this time?
Search away.
Better yet, search the Bible. It will do more good for you.
Search the Bible and show me one verse where it commands the unbeliever to "repent of all his sins."
Will you do at least that much for me.

How do we access the last three years posts....the archives only show up to 2008
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Here for any who enjoy studying bible truth ...from J.P.BOYCE;
ch33

CHAPTER XXXIII

REPENTANCE.

The Scripture doctrine of Repentance is to be learned in part from the meaning of the original Greek word used to express it, and in part from its application to a matter which is within the sphere of morals.

I. There are two forms of words used in the New Testament which are translated repent and repentance.

Only one of these is used of the repentance associated with salvation from sin. This is the verb metanoeo, and the corresponding noun metanoia. The other verb is metamelomai, the noun of which does not appear in the New Testament, but occurs in the Septuagint in Hosea 11:8. The verb is used in the Septuagint in Psalm 110:4; and Jer. 20:16. It is also the word used in the New Testament in Matt. 21:29, which says of the son who had refused to obey his father’s command to work in the vineyard, “afterward he repented himself and went.” It likewise is found in Matt. 21:32 and 27:3, this latter being the case of Judas. Paul uses it in Rom. 11:29; and 2 Cor. 7:8, 10. It is also the word used in Heb. 7:21. In all other places, translated repent and repentance in the New Testament, the original is metanoeo or metanoia. This word means to reconsider, to perceive afterwards, and hence to change one’s view, mind, or purpose, or even judgement, implying disapproval and abandonment of past opinions and purposes, and the adoption of others which are different. In all cases of inward change there is not necessarily a change of outward conduct, nor is such inward change accompanied by regret. These results would flow from the nature of that about which that change has arisen.

We arrive, therefore, at the meaning of Christian repentance partly through the meaning of these Greek words, but also partly because it is exercised about a question of morals. It is seen that it involves a change in the outward life because such change is a result of the change of inward opinions. It also includes sorrow for sin because a change of view as to the nature of sin and of holiness must be accompanied by regret and sorrow as to the past acts of sin.

The word metamelomai means to change one’s care, to regret; the idea of sorrow always accompanying it.

The two words are nearly synonymous in their secondary meaning, and each is used in this secondary meaning in the New Testament. Metanoeo, however, traces the feeling of sorrow and the change of life back to an inward change of opinion and judgement as to the nature of sin and holiness, and of the relations of man and God. It is perhaps on this account that it is exclusively used for true repentance in the New Testament. This is not simply sorrow, or remorse, which may pass away, or lead in despair to other sins, or fill the soul with anxiety’ but a heartfelt change in the inward soul towards God and holiness, which is lasting and effective, and which may be associated with peace and joy in believing.

II. To set forth explicitly what Christian Repentance is, it may be stated that it includes

1. An intellectual and spiritual perception of the opposition between holiness in God and sin in man. It does not look at sin as the cause of punishment but abhors it because it is vile in the sight of God and involves in heinous guilt all who are sinners.

2. It consequently includes sorrow and self-loathing, and earnest desire to escape the evil of sin. The penitent soul does not so much feel the greatness of its danger as the greatness of its sinfulness.

3. It also includes an earnest turning to God for help and deliverance from sin, seeking pardon for guilt and aid to escape its presence.

It is also accompanied by deep regret because of the sins committed in the past, and by determination with God’s help to avoid sin and live in holiness hereafter. The heart heretofore against God and for sin is now against sin and for God.

From these facts it will be seen that

(1.) The seat of true repentance is in the soul. It is not of itself the mere intellectual knowledge of sin, nor the sorrow that accompanies it, nor the changed life which flows from it; but it is the soul’s apprehension of its heinous character, which begets the horror and self-loathing which accompany it, and the determination to forsake sin which flows from it.

(2.) That true repentance is inconsistent with the continuance in sin because of grace abounding.

(3.) That true repentance consists of mental and spiritual emotion, and not of outward self-imposed chastisements. Even the pious life and devotion to God which follow are described not as repentance, but as fruits meet for repentance.

III. The Scriptures teach that the author of true repentance is God operating by truth upon the renewed heart.

Acts 5:31. Christ is said to have been exalted “to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins.”

Acts 11:18. “Then to the Gentiles also hath God granted repentance unto life.”

The means used is the preaching and other exhibition of the truth. Repentance like faith comes through the hearing of the word. By this men are exhorted to that duty, and gain the knowledge of the truths taught by God, through spiritual apprehension of which men are led to the truth.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
here is baptist AWPINK;
“Repent ye and believe the Gospel” (Mark 1:15)

“Testifying both to the Jews and also to the Greeks repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ” (Acts 20:21).

Pink,

A contrite spirit and a heart acceptance of the Gospel are inseparably connected, so that wherever the one is mentioned the other is presupposed. For example, take the passages recording the Gospel commission: in Mark 16:16 the emphasis is on “believing”, while in Luke 24:47 it is on “repentance”—the two together explaining the “make disciples” of Matthew 28:19. The one cannot exist without the other: it is just as morally impossible for an impenitent heart to believe, as it is for an unbeliever to repent. There may indeed be a mental assent to the Truth unaccompanied by any brokenness of heart, as there may be natural remorse where no faith exists; but there can be no saving faith where evangelical repentance is absent…There can be no pardon while there is no repentance (Isa. 55:7, Luke 24:47, Acts 3:19) i.e. mourning over and abandoning of our evil ways.

Repentance is a change of mind: one that goes much deeper and includes far more than a mere change of opinion or creed. It is a changed mind, a new perception, an altogether different outlook on things as they previously appeared. It is the necessary effect of a new heart. Repentance consists of a radical change of mind about God, about sin, about self, about the world. Previously God was resisted, now He is owned as our rightful Lord. Previously sin was delighted in, but now it is hated and mourned over. Previously self was esteemed, but now it is abhorred. Previously we were of the world and its friendship was sought and prized, now our hearts have been divorced from the world and we regard it as an enemy. Everything is viewed with other eyes than formerly, and an entirely different estimate is formed of them. The impenitent see in Christ no beauty that they should desire Him, but a broken and contrite heart perceives that He is perfectly suited to him. Thus, while He continues to be despised by the self-righteous Pharisees, He is welcomed and entertained by publicans and sinners. Repentance softens the hard soil of the soul and makes it receptive to the Gospel Seed.

Repentance necessarily leads to a change of conduct, for a change of mind must produce a change of action…

taken from: Gleanings in Joshua by A.W. Pink
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
http://www.hannoveribc.com/clientimages/25727/pink repentance.pdf

For the teachings of the Prophets see Psa. 32:3-5;
Prov. 28:13; Jer. 4:4; Ezek. 18:30-32; Hosea 5:15;
Joel
2:12-18. John the Baptist, the forerunner of Christ, preached saying, “Repent ye, for the kingdom of
heaven is at hand”(Matt. 3:2). This was as though he said,
“Such is the nature of the Messiah’s kingdom, so holy isit, that no impenitent sinner, while such, can be a member of it and share its blessings. The promised One is on the eve of making His appearance: therefore repent ye, and thus be prepared to receive Him.” Thus did
John preach, and many did he turn the Lord their God: Luke 1:16, 17.
The Lord Jesus taught and constantly pressed the same truth. His call was, “Repent ye, and believe theGospel” (Mark 1:15): the Gospel cannot be savingly believed until there is genuine repentance — as the ground must be plowed before it is capable of receiving the seed, so the heart must be melted ere it will welcome the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Therefore did He declare, “Blessed are they that mourn, forthey shall be comforted” (Matt. 5:4), and announce that He had been sent “to heal the
broken-hearted” (Luke4:18). He came here to “call sinners to repentance”
(Luke 5:32), and insisted that
“Except ye repent,ye shall all likewise perish”(Luke 13:3, 5). He illustrated this truth at length in the parable of the prodigal son, who "came to himself,” repented,
left the “far country” and returned to the Father, and so obtained his
forgiveness (Luke 15:17-20).
When risen from the dead, Christ commissioned His servants “That repentance
and remission of sins should be preached in His name among
all nations” (Luke 24:47), and Acts 5:31 tells us that He has been
exalted on high to communicate these blessings in the same order, namely, to give repentance to (the
spiritual) Israeland forgiveness of sins.” Accordingly we find the Apostles, who were filled with the Holy
Spirit, thus carrying out His command. On the Day of Pentecost when many were “pricked in their hearts”
and asked “what shall we do?”, Peter did not say, Do nothing but rest upon the finished work of Christ
.
Instead, he said, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:38). Again, in Acts 3:19 we find him
saying, “Repent ye therefore and be converted that your sins may be blotted out!”
When Paul was converted and sent to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles, it was to “open their eyes and to turn them from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God,
thatthey might receive forgiveness of sins” (Acts 26:18); hence we find he went everywhere and preached to men that they should “repent and turn to God and do works meet for repentance” (Acts
26:20), “testifying to both Jews and also to the Greeks,repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ”(Acts 20:21). As to those who shut theireyes, stopped their ears, hardened their hearts, and were given up to destruction in the days of the Prophets
(Isa. 6:10), of Christ (Matt. 13:15), and of the Apostles (Acts 28:27), their sentence ran thus: “Lest
theyshould see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and be converted, and I shouldheal them,” which compared with Mark 4:12 signifies “and their sins should be forgiven them”.
Against these clear and consistent testimonies of Holy Writ, certain men have insisted that the Divine
call to repentance was never made to any except those who were in covenant relationship with God. But as we have shown, Acts 17:30 and 26:20 clearly expose this error. Some have pointed out that the word “repent” is not once found in all John’s Gospel, and in view of 20:31 have
reasoned
that it is not necessary
unto salvation. But John’s Gospel is plainly addressed unto those who aresaved (see 1:16). It is that Gospelwhich sets forth the Son in relation to the sons of God. John 20:31 obviously means that this Gospel is written to strengthen
the faith of believers; as I John 5:13 (addressed to those who already knew they were
saved: see 2:3 etc.) signifies the purpose of that
epistle was to deepen assurance. Others have drawn a false inference from the very infrequent mention of repentance in the Epistles, but they also are addressed to thesaints; yet 2 Cor. 7:10; 2 Tim. 2:25; 2 Pet. 3:9 manifestly confirm the fact that repentance is required throughout this dispensation.
“There is no newthing under the sun” (Eccl. 1:9), nor is the present-day denial of the necessity of
repentance for salvation any twentieth century novelty. In proof of this statement we could fill page
after page with quotations from Anti-nomians and others who lived long before “dispensational truth” was first heard of. No, it is an old device of Satan’s yet under a new dress. But woe unto those who accept hislie.
God must cease to exist before He will lower His claims and cease demanding repentance from all who have rebelled against Him. Make no mistake upon this point, dear reader:
it is turn or burn— turn from yourcourse of self-will and self-pleasing; turn in broken-heartedness unto God, seeking His mercy in Christ; turnwith full purpose to please and serve Him, or be to
rmented day and night forever and ever in the Lakeof Fire
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Very helpful in that Renihan perfectly describes my dilemma.
His most helpful statement :"human language cannot contain who and what God is".
To me this supports my comfort zone of the mystery and human incomprehensibility of God and His persona. I'll continue in the series.

HankD
Yes indeed...I found this simple and yet very biblically profound! Glad you followed up on it and listened...as time permits I would like to outline and build on these messages

http://www.rbap.net/our-books/confe...onfessional-doctrine-of-divine-impassibility/
 
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
This is the catechism I subscribe to. You cannot begin to answer it...it is solid biblical teaching that eludes you.... I do not post it for you because you do not desire an answer...so I post it to help others who desire biblical teaching. This link and the link to the 1689 offer correct teaching which is like an Oasis after reading your barren fruitless posts.
So it is a Catechism. This is a debate forum. You quoting a Catechism to my answer shows your inability to respond to my post or answer to a post. It is not debate but rather the inability to debate. You never answered my post.
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It is not a personal attack if it is an accurate observation and factual is it?

Show me a post where you have used scripture??? I might have missed it if you did....??? even from another thread...where was it?

Look, this is simple. You keep saying one needs to "repent of their sins" to be saved. I keep asking for scripture that says so. You keep posting confessions of faith, catechisms, and other human opinions, full of scriptures but not one verse that says "repent of your sins".





Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo using Tapatalk.
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I want to quote one small paragraph. What caught my eye the most in the paragraph is in bold.
"Others, in their recoil from salvation by reformation, have failed to duly preserve the balance of truth, and give proper place to such Scriptures as “He that covereth his sins shall not prosper; but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy” (Prov. 28:13), and “Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts, and let him return unto the Lord, and He will have mercy upon Him” (Isa. 55:7). It is not that there is anything meritorious in a sinner’s compliance with this righteous demand of God, but that the claims of the Holy One must be pressed on those who have transgressed against Him. Yet that is just the thing the haughty rebel desires to hear about least of all, and the sad thing is that so many are now, wittingly or unwittingly, withholding that which is unpalatable to men but which is honouring to God. How widespread this withholding is, may be quickly discovered by an examination of present-day tracts purporting to explain how a sinner may be saved: in most of them not a word is said about repentance."
When I read "salvation by reformation" all kinds of alarm bells and discomfort comes to mind. For there is no salvation in self reformation, rather all reforming of a believer is authored by the Father through that conduit called sanctification in which the believer must use to quench some aspect unpleasing to the Father. Salvation and reformation are never to be confused, for one must come before the other has any true heavenly grace.

Having said that, I do NOT think that Pink is placing one can be "saved by reformation" as one might suggest a passing through is made by reforming, but rather the results of Salvation is reformation. Reformation of thinking, of heart desire, or agenda, of priorities...

There is another aspect in which I would also draw from the Scriptures. That is the imparting of the truth and need of reformation is giving in Love. The Father, through the Holy Spirit, guiding the believer into all truth does nothing but what is loving to His own. That is why the claim of Scriptures, "all things work together for the good..." is so very precious. Romans 8:
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."​

Too often, the teachers of religion neglect to point out that ALL believers WILL be conformed. It is what the Father ordained.

Repentance, in its purest form then is the natural cry of the believer as the Father's working power flows through the conduit of sanctification bringing that believer not only into awareness and compliance, but to the very image of His Son.

I am not arguing so much against Pink, but against the idea that repentance is self generated, and self imposed. Such repentance is mere remorse such as Judas experienced which drove him to hang himself.

2 Corinthians makes this distinction that (IMO) is neglected by some both of the reformed thinking and those who are not.
"I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. 10 For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. 11 For behold what earnestness this very thing, this godly sorrow, has produced in you: what vindication of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what avenging of wrong! In everything you demonstrated yourselves to be innocent in the matter."​

John states (1 John)
"See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure....
"Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil."​

Here then must be the distinction that all must come to understand.

ALL will suffer remorse for wrong. That is part of the human nature. The remorse and repentance from God is not condemnation, but impulses of love to guide in purging and cleansing that the believer be more usable and tuned to the will of the Father. There is no regret associated with that repentance, but an understanding that the Father's will is to be expressed in and through the believer (us).

The remorse of the worldly is not of the same result, but ultimately brings death.

One other observation.

When the believer witnesses of the Christ, it is the HOLY SPIRIT that must convict and convince of sin, righteousness, judgment and NOT the witness's responsibility. It is not our job, for we have not been given such authority over the heart.

That in no way means or should be taken to mean that the presentation should be devoid of statements in Scripture given about the judgement, the righteousness and the sin. But it is the Scripture the Holy Spirit uses. That use is up to God to produce what HE desires in each person. We are merely the delivery mechanism God has chosen. We are not responsible that every person is convinced or convicted.
 
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