'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved'

[Internet Theologian]

What do people repent of?

Repent of unbelief/lack of faith/trust in Christ/messiah/finished work of Christ

Turn from self as god and turn to the One True Living God.

John 16:8-9 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me;

No, that's not it Jon. Many believe in the work of Christ, assent to the facts but having never been granted repentance, which is being saved from their sin, Matthew 1:21, Revelation 1:5. They remain unconverted. They are still in their sins because even though they make alleged mental assent to facts they have not been granted faith nor repentance. A few within the Gospel accounts believed in Him but were still lost, in fact they believed some of what the Scriptures said of Him, even what Christ said of Himself, note John 8:30ff.

You ask what people repent of, if we are talking the converted they repent of their wickedness, their sin: 1 Thess. 1; Acts 2; 1 Cor. 6:9ff; Galatians 5:19ff; Revelation 7:14ff.

No one can have a true God directed and God granted faith and repentance 'change of mind about God' and go on living in sinfulness. To do so shows they had no true change of mind about God. And he said to man, ‘Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, and to turn away from evil is understanding.’” Job 28:28.

No person can have an encounter with the Christ of God, remain in their sin and have some mere change in their mind about Him. That theology has been popularized of late and it is shallow and inaccurate and its view on the transforming Gospel is paltry at its best. It is a dumbed down and truncated version of the true. You should lay more depth of power and understanding of the transformation than that!

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK,

You certainly don't like the truth do you?

It is because i have a love of the truth that I oppose your false ideas, theories, and carnal speculations.

I did enjoy seeing AmyG and this other person Bob dismantle your false ideas step by step.

The truth is very simple.

It looks like it is for everyone else.

It was just recently posted:
Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes unto the Father but by me."

Yes I do believe that is was the Lord Jesus Christ who was sent by the Father to save all Those elected Sheep given to Him In The Covenant of Redemption and Grace

Do you believe that?

Of course....I believe it in the same way the historic church has always believed it;
It is you who oppose it...why can you not see that.

It is doubtful.

Not to anyone who understands these matters. It seems doubtful to you because your theology has fragmented the word of God, wrongly dividing what God keeps together.
Do not take your frustration out on me and other cals who see what you cannot.

You don't post like you do.

Sure I do, but thank you so much for your sincere concernUnsure

QUOTE]Understand that the simple statement made by Christ is salvation by faith (sola fide). [/QUOTE]
Yes it is...it is by saving faith which comes from God, not mere human trust as you suggest.

Your definition of repentance requires you to believe in a message of salvation by works

Not at all....your monster strawman requires such nonsense, my definition does not howeverThumbsup

VINTAGE DHK strawman coming, reader beware

which is no better than Hinduism, Catholicism, or any other world religion.

here you go again, just like you tried to do to AMYG and Bob B in the link from 2007...same exact wording, same unteachable attitude...the readers can see itSick

It denies the grace of God in salvation. You have said that: "salvation requires that one repents from all their sin." That is a works-based salvation.

No link that I posted says that...your twisting of words does. The links are very clear.
God does not like sin as much as your theology does.
God saves His people ...FROM THEIR SINS....It is part of the salvation we are granted, or graced by God.
There is a mourning and sorrow over any known sin , and all sin is to be mortified by real believers.

What you have brought from past posts, (which you apparently agree with), is that salvation is emotional.

AMY G tore you up on that.....God saves the whole person, mind, will emotions,
real Christians do not rejoice and enjoy sin as your so called "carnal Christians" do who thrive on enjoying living in sin.

Without your emotions one cannot be saved. After all, that is what sorrow is, an emotion. Like a little child: "I am sorry; I am sorry; I am sorry," cry, cry, cry. Very emotional. So you are sorry for your sins?

I myself am not overly emotional, but we are emotional persons. I do have sorrow of my sinful failings and proceed each day to take steps to mortify any and all sin.

That doesn't guarantee you salvation.

No one made any such claim, another strawman by the DHK strawman express.

Nowhere does the Bible teach that sorrow is a requirement for salvation.

This is strawman number 3Cautious...you never run out of them do you? who said it was a "requirement"?

That was the debate, and you are now saying that it is. Honestly Icon!

If you could be "honest" this stuff would not be going on.

How many works do you have before one must be saved.

Strawman 4....good works are ordained for the saved.

Let me remind you that salvation is by faith and faith alone.

Thanks...but I believe that Salvation is by faith, IN Christ alone...we are not saved by faith in faith.

But Icon says that salvation is by faith PLUS sorrow

lying strawman #5...where did I say "plus"

, plus repentance of all one's sins,

plus waiting for God to give you the gift of repentance, and the gift of faith, plus, plus, plus, ...WORKS
Salvation is by faith and faith alone.

CautiousCautiousCautiousCautious

 

[JonShaff]

The statement as posted is wrong.
God saves people ....from their sins....not in their sins-
mt1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Saved people turn from sins unto God....that is repentance.

John 3:17-18 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I agree...saved people turn from sin and turn to God...that is part of it.

 

[JonShaff]

No, that's not it Jon. Many believe in the work of Christ, assent to the facts but having never been granted repentance, which is being saved from their sin, Matthew 1:21, Revelation 1:5. They remain unconverted. They are still in their sins because even though they make alleged mental assent to facts they have not been granted faith nor repentance. A few within the Gospel accounts believed in Him but were still lost, in fact they believed some of what the Scriptures said of Him, even what Christ said of Himself, note John 8:30ff.

You ask what people repent of, if we are talking the converted they repent of their wickedness, their sin: 1 Thess. 1; Acts 2; 1 Cor. 6:9ff; Galatians 5:19ff; Revelation 7:14ff.

No one can have a true God directed and God granted faith and repentance 'change of mind about God' and go on living in sinfulness. To do so shows they had no true change of mind about God. And he said to man, ‘Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, and to turn away from evil is understanding.’” Job 28:28.

No person can have an encounter with the Christ of God, remain in their sin and have some mere change in their mind about Him. That theology has been popularized of late and it is shallow and inaccurate and its view on the transforming Gospel is paltry at its best. It is a dumbed down and truncated version of the true. You should lay more depth of power and understanding of the transformation than that!

John 3:17-18 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The lepers had an encounter with Christ and only 1 "came to Him."

You've added a lot of things I never said nor did I imply.

 

[Internet Theologian]

John 3:17-18 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The lepers had an encounter with Christ and only 1 "came to Him."

Yes, I am aware of the passages you supplied. Scripture qualifies belief. It doesn't validate easy-believeism and there is more to Scripture than quoting a passage to guarantee persons salvation on mere belief from the book of John.

In John 8:30, they believed, were they converted? Are all that say they believe converted?

 

[JonShaff]

Yes, I am aware of the passages you supplied. Scripture qualifies belief. It doesn't validate easy-believeism and there is more to Scripture than quoting a passage to guarantee persons salvation on mere belief from the book of John.

In John 8:30, they believed, were they converted? Are all that say they believe converted?

If and when a person believes AND they agree with God as to their position before Him, guilty sinful sinner who has sinned against God and God alone (think Psalm 51), God will reveal the necessity of Calling on the Lord Jesus to save them from their sin. Repentance is a fruit of saving faith.

The question is...they believe in Jesus FOR WHAT?

The only one who can give them peace with God and save them from their sin?

Or just an accessory in life to make things a little easier to cope with?

Or a good luck charm to help them when their Confidence fails them?

And just quoting John 8:30 to defend your thought Is a bit misleading. You have to take several verses before that verse to keep the conversation together. Out of those disobedient jews...Some did truly believe on Jesus Christ as the Son of God for salvation...Jesus then turns his focus to the unbelieving Jews again..
How do we know? Because they are relying on the flesh...literally...they said because they are of Abraham's seed after the flesh they've been set free and then Jesus rebukes them sharply and calls them the sons of satan and says this..

John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

so we see...out of those who Jesus was talking to, some did believe and others didn't.

Edited to add...

 

[Internet Theologian]

If and when a person believes AND they agree with God as to their position before Him, guilty sinful sinner who has sinned against God and God alone (think Psalm 51), God will reveal the necessity of Calling on the Lord Jesus to save them from their sin. Repentance is a fruit of saving faith.

The question is...they believe in Jesus FOR WHAT?

The only one who can give them peace with God and save them from their sin?

Or just an accessory in life to make things a little easier to cope with?

Or a good luck charm to help them when their Confidence fails them?

OK, now were they saved in John 8:30?

 

[JonShaff]

OK, now were they saved in John 8:30?

See my edit

 

[JonShaff]

OK, now were they saved in John 8:30?

And to reconcile how they believed and then didn't believe (if those were the same Jews), if they WERE NOT saved they obviously didn't continue in His word...the parable of the sower comes to mind. They had the soil of the first or second group.

 

[InTheLight]

You also said this;


Show where any cal anywhere says this? You cannot , so you demonstrate your ignorance by making such a statement. You want to be critical of Calvinism and you cannot get to first base in understanding what it is.

YOU posted it in post #88. I excerpted it a couple of posts upstream. Here is the link and the quote (again)

We have no right to consider our selves in the way to eternal life, if we are strangers to repentance. Nor will it suffice to have been at some time alarmed about our sin. A false repentance, which needs to be repented of, satisfies many a deluded soul. Genuine repentance is a deep-felt and abiding sense of sin, a condemnation of ourselves before God on account of it, a turning away from it with abhorrence and loathing, and a fixed purpose of soul never again to commit it, or be at peace with it. This sense of sin drives the soul to Christ, and unites with the exercise of faith in Christ, to distinguish genuine religion from the counterfeits with which the world abounds.

http://www.reformedreader.org/rbb/dagg/motb4i.htm#fn0

(The Reformed Reader is a Calvinist website.)

 

[InTheLight]

And yet it is God that commands man to repent.
God does not repent for man; he commands man to repent. You are a very confused person.
Your theology makes God out to be schizophrenic.
IT's theology is like this:
God commands man: "Repent!" Then God says: "No, wait! I have changed my mind. I will repent on your behalf."
Is your God so double-minded he cannot make up his own mind.
The Bible commands all men everywhere to repent. God never promises that He will do it for them.
It has nothing to with man-centered or God-centered theologies. It has to do with believing what the Bible says.

IT's theology is worse than that. In Calvinism:

God sends people to Hell for unbelief, people that He has predestined to be incapable of believing.

God is angered by people that reject the blood of his Son, yet He never spilled his Son's blood for these people in the first place.

God commands all people everywhere to repent or perish, but He knows the reprobates can't repent and He knows the elect can't perish.

 

[DHK]

You are sticking to 1Cor.7:10 are you?
The passage is speaking of the godly sorrow of the Corinthian Christians.
The unregenerate cannot have godly sorrow for they aren't yet godly. How can the ungodly have godly sorrow? The passage is speaking of believers not unbelievers. Nowhere does the Bible teach that sorrow is a condition of salvation. Why do you guys insist on a works based salvation. Salvation is by faith and faith alone. Whatever happened to sola fide?

 

[Iconoclast]

YOU posted it in post #88. I excerpted it a couple of posts upstream. Here is the link and the quote (again)

We have no right to consider our selves in the way to eternal life, if we are strangers to repentance. Nor will it suffice to have been at some time alarmed about our sin. A false repentance, which needs to be repented of, satisfies many a deluded soul. Genuine repentance is a deep-felt and abiding sense of sin, a condemnation of ourselves before God on account of it, a turning away from it with abhorrence and loathing, and a fixed purpose of soul never again to commit it, or be at peace with it. This sense of sin drives the soul to Christ, and unites with the exercise of faith in Christ, to distinguish genuine religion from the counterfeits with which the world abounds.

http://www.reformedreader.org/rbb/dagg/motb4i.htm#fn0

(The Reformed Reader is a Calvinist website.)

I agree with this quote....do you understand the first 2 sentence s? We repent and keep on repenting of remaining corruption. Repentance is no stranger to a real Christian

 

[DHK]

DHK,
It is because i have a love of the truth that I oppose your false ideas, theories, and carnal speculations.

You have contradicted yourself in your own posts. Others here have shown you that.
God commands this, and then changes his mind and says never mind I will do it for you.
You have an unbiblical definition of repentance which you cannot find in the Bible.
You have a works-based view of salvation.

I did enjoy seeing AmyG and this other person Bob dismantle your false ideas step by step.

Dragging the past into the present doesn't help your cause any. Neither did they dismantle anything I said. But that is not now.

It looks like it is for everyone else.

The truth is very simple. It is the gospel message. It can be simply expressed in one's testimony, and yet you have a hard time doing that. I guess you are not a part of "everyone else."

Yes I do believe that is was the Lord Jesus Christ who was sent by the Father to save all Those elected Sheep given to Him In The Covenant of Redemption and Grace

That is not what Jesus said in the verse I quoted. Herein is your error of scripture twisting.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
--See how simple that is. Jesus never spoke of "the Covenant of Redemption and Grace." He said that one must come through Him, and Him alone.

You say: "Of course....I believe it in the same way the historic church has always believed it;
It is you who oppose it...why can you not see that."
--But you just proved otherwise. The simple words of Jesus in John 14:6 you have substituted for a Covenant. Jesus said: "I am the way the truth and the life."
Icon says, The Covenant of Redemption.,.." is the way, the truth and the life..." That is not what the historic church has always believed. It is what Calvinism teaches.

Not to anyone who understands these matters. It seems doubtful to you because your theology has fragmented the word of God, wrongly dividing what God keeps together.
Do not take your frustration out on me and other cals who see what you cannot.

Understand that the simple statement made by Christ is salvation by faith (sola fide).

[Yes it is...it is by saving faith which comes from God, not mere human trust as you suggest.

Faith is faith. Nowhere in the Bible is the term "saving faith" used. That is a concoction made by man. It is his invention, not a Biblical term. Faith is faith. The faith that saves is the faith that has as its object Jesus Christ and his atoning work. You have an unbiblical belief that somehow faith is this mystical magical existential substance given to you supernaturally. You are wrong. Faith is faith. All men have faith. God does not have to give to man that which he already has. He gives to man that which he doesn't have--salvation: which he receives by "his faith."
Jesus said: "according to your faith, so be it." He didn't say: "according to the faith I give you." That is the words of Calvin speaking, not God.

Not at all....your monster strawman requires such nonsense, my definition does not however

Your use of "strawman" simply means you have no response. This has been pointed out to you.
You say a man must repent of all his sins as a requirement for salvation. That is works. It is also not a proper definition of repentance. Have you ever bothered to look at the Greek word?

VINTAGE DHK strawman coming, reader beware

here you go again, just like you tried to do to AMYG and Bob B in the link from 2007...same exact wording, same unteachable attitude...the readers can see it

No strawman. The fact that I used comparisons then does not negate the fact that I can use them now.
Any religion that teaches one must use works to gain entrance into heaven can be compared to the other religions of the world that teach the same thing, i.e., Catholicism, Hinduism, etc. Wouldn't you agree? You are not teaching a religion of grace by faith, but rather one of works--the same as Catholicism. To repent of all your sins is works.

No link that I posted says that...your twisting of words does. The links are very clear.
God does not like sin as much as your theology does.
God saves His people ...FROM THEIR SINS....It is part of the salvation we are granted, or graced by God.
There is a mourning and sorrow over any known sin , and all sin is to be mortified by real believers.

Sorrow doesn't save. Mourning doesn't save. Repenting from all your sins doesn't save. Only faith in Christ and Him alone can save.
This time I have others to back me up in all of your bluster.
ITL refers you back to your own post; post #88 where you post your own version of works-based salvation. You are caught in your own web of deceit. Then you try to pass it on as "strawman" because you have no answer. This is typical "Icon-speak."

real Christians do not rejoice and enjoy sin as your so called "carnal Christians" do who thrive on enjoying living in sin.

I never said they did. Neither can they become real Christians by their works; by repenting of all their sins.

I myself am not overly emotional, but we are emotional persons. I do have sorrow of my sinful failings and proceed each day to take steps to mortify any and all sin.

We are speaking of salvation. Does sorrow save? Did the sorrow that Judas had save him?

No one made any such claim, another strawman by the DHK strawman express.

This is strawman number 3
If you could be "honest" this stuff would not be going on.
Strawman 4....good works are ordained for the saved.
lying strawman #5...where did I say "plus"

All these so-called strawmen were pulled out of the hat by you when you felt justified in going back to a conversation that took place in 2007 where no one else here was involved. Basically you are misrepresenting things that were or were not said and there is no need to go any further into that conversation now. Please post to the OP, not to conversations made over 8 years ago.

 

[Internet Theologian]

See my edit

There was no distinction made in that context between those in 8:30 and the balance of the passage. Even those of FGT see no distinction and believe that a sheep can become a child of the devil. But again there is no distinction drawn, they believed, and many say then they are converted no matter what happens later in the text to reveal what they truly are.

 

[Internet Theologian]

And to reconcile how they believed and then didn't believe (if those were the same Jews), if they WERE NOT saved they obviously didn't continue in His word...the parable of the sower comes to mind. They had the soil of the first or second group.

I hear what you're saying bro. Now, this is where the false dichotomy of believer/disciple comes in to play.

 

[Internet Theologian]

The statement as posted is wrong.
God saves people ....from their sins....not in their sins-
mt1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Saved people turn from sins unto God....that is repentance.

I see at least one has disagreed with this truth. What a shame and it tells you a lot about the persons gospel understanding, that it is severely amiss.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I agree with this quote....do you understand the first 2 sentence s? We repent and keep on repenting of remaining corruption. Repentance is no stranger to a real Christian

Repentance is the believers lifestyle, it comes from the inner workings of God, and is a part of the sanctification process, Hebrews 12:14; 1 John 3:3.

 

[InTheLight]

I agree with this quote....do you understand the first 2 sentence s? We repent and keep on repenting of remaining corruption. Repentance is no stranger to a real Christian

So we repent at regeneration and then continue to repent throughout our Christian walk. Sorta like on ongoing "good work" that we do so we can persevere to the end and complete the "P" in TULIP.

I got news for you, if you continually keep repenting of the same sin(s), you never truly repented to begin with.

 

[percho]

The last statement concerning the new covenant; Heb. 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Is that in bold God's response to man's repentance or is it repentance granted by God or neither. Is it even relative to sin and repentance?