Divorce and Remarriage before Salvation

[Zaac]

I'm going to say that if you divorced someone and they moved on and married someone else that your union with them is effectively ended because of the adultery clause. There is no point in pursuing that tie anymore.

There may not be any reason to pursue the relationship anymore, but there isn't reason to willfully commit adultery if God says you're still married.

We can't do away with the first marriage by saying the person had sex with someone else after our divorce and thus the adultery exception enters into play. The reason has to be the reason for GETTING the divorce.

Still, that is a hairy situation. You're remarried and have kids in your remarriage, then years later you get saved, you're then expected to divorce and separate that marriage if your former spouse decided to stay single? I mean, okay, but I can understand this being super debatable.

It's crazy, huh? This is why God takes marriage, whether you're saved or not at the time, very seriously.

I simply cannot back down on the abuse thing, though. It isn't about feelings, it's about an abusive union being just as harmful as one where adultery was committed.

A lot of folks feel that way but it simply is not Biblical.

 

[Zaac]

What would you suggest happen in the case where one is in a relationship where one spouse has no respect for boundaries of the other, physically or emotionally, and does not intend to change? Spousal rape exists, for example. This is fact.
It takes two to make a relationship work, if only one is taking that seriously to the point of harming the other the relationship is doing harm and not good. It is the same lack of respect and care shown in cases of adultery.

But it's not adultery, and still not a BIBLICAL grounds for divorce. They might separate and live apart for a while or the remainder of their lives. But GOD has not given them His right to divorce because of those actions.

 

[evenifigoalone]

There may not be any reason to pursue the relationship anymore, but there isn't reason to willfully commit adultery if God says you're still married.

We can't do away with the first marriage by saying the person had sex with someone else after our divorce and thus the adultery exception enters into play. The reason has to be the reason for GETTING the divorce.

Just gonna have to agree to disagree on this point, I guess. If they remarried they have no intention of going back to you, and are extremely unlikely to drop this new marriage simply because you had a change of heart.

 

[Zaac]

Just gonna have to agree to disagree on this point, I guess. If they remarried they have no intention of going back to you, and are extremely unlikely to drop this new marriage simply because you had a change of heart.

Probably not. But the primary focus of the Christian has to be to do what is pleasing to Christ and not what is pleasing to self or others. His word calls it adultery and that is sinful. And as followers of Christ, we are called to follow His way, not the way that's necessarily convenient or easiest for us.

Because I say again, if we're to take the approach you're mentioning, why couldn't the homosexual who follows Christ likewise say "I'm gonna remain in my homosexual offense relationship and God will just forgive it because I'm one of His followers?"

 

[evenifigoalone]

Probably not. But the primary focus of the Christian has to be to do what is pleasing to Christ and not what is pleasing to self or others. His word calls it adultery and that is sinful. And as followers of Christ, we are called to follow His way, not the way that's necessarily convenient or easiest for us.

Because I say again, if we're to take the approach you're mentioning, why couldn't the homosexual who follows Christ likewise say "I'm gonna remain in my homosexual offense relationship and God will just forgive it because I'm one of His followers?"

That is not a valid comparison because the reasoning is different. The reasoning I gave is scripture-based. Should someone try to change their ways, sure. Should they try to see if their old divorced spouse wants to get back together? Maybe. But if the answer is no and said former spouse is going to keep their new marriage, they're free.

 

[Zaac]

That is not a valid comparison because the reasoning is different. The reasoning I gave is scripture-based.

How is your reasoning Scripture-based if Scripture doesn't give what you said as a Scriptural reason to divorce?

Should someone try to change their ways, sure. Should they try to see if their old divorced spouse wants to get back together? Maybe. But if the answer is no and said former spouse is going to keep their new marriage, they're free.

THAT is NOT Biblical. And thus, I believe, one of the reasons why True Puritan had started the "No Adulterers in Heaven" thread.

 

[evenifigoalone]

How is your reasoning Scripture-based if Scripture doesn't give what you said as a Scriptural reason to divorce?



THAT is NOT Biblical. And thus, I believe, one of the reasons why True Puritan had started the "No Adulterers in Heaven" thread.

It is. Adultery is considered a valid reason for divorce according to scripture. Divorce is termination of a marriage union and responsibilities.

 

[Zaac]

It is. Adultery is considered a valid reason for divorce according to scripture. Divorce is termination of a marriage union and responsibilities.

quest, so that we're on the same page, are we still referring to this situation:

What would you suggest happen in the case where one is in a relationship where one spouse has no respect for boundaries of the other, physically or emotionally, and does not intend to change? Spousal rape exists, for example. This is fact.
It takes two to make a relationship work, if only one is taking that seriously to the point of harming the other the relationship is doing harm and not good. It is the same lack of respect and care shown in cases of adultery.

If so, what in that situation is a BIBLICALLY given grounds for divorce?

 

[evenifigoalone]

quest, so that we're on the same page, are we still referring to this situation:



If so, what in that situation is a BIBLICALLY given grounds for divorce?

I see. That situation is not what I'm referring to. I was referring to this:

I'm going to say that if you divorced someone and they moved on and married someone else that your union with them is effectively ended because of the adultery clause. There is no point in pursuing that tie anymore.

I did not respond to your response to the abuse question because while I must disagree there isn't really anything to say. Thank you for your answer, though.

 

[Zaac]

I see. That situation is not what I'm referring to. I was referring to this:


I did not respond to your response to the abuse question because while I must disagree there isn't really anything to say. Thank you for your answer, though.

Thanks for the clarification quest. For the situation that you are talking about, you didn't say that the reason FOR the divorce was adultery. The adultery happened after the divorce as a result of one or both of them thinking they had been released from the original marriage.

In order for you to believe that the after the "divorce" sex was adultery, you'd have to believe that the original two people were still married. Otherwise, you couldn't present yourself with a reason to now justify their original unlawful divorce.

In other words, how are you using adultery to justify the divorce if you don't believe the original marriage is still valid?

 

[evenifigoalone]

Thanks for the clarification quest. For the situation that you are talking about, you didn't say that the reason FOR the divorce was adultery. The adultery happened after the divorce as a result of one or both of them thinking they had been released from the original marriage.

In order for you to believe that the after the "divorce" sex was adultery, you'd have to believe that the original two people were still married. Otherwise, you couldn't present yourself with a reason to now justify their original unlawful divorce.

In other words, how are you using adultery to justify the divorce if you don't believe the original marriage is still valid?

In order for you to believe that the after the "divorce" sex was adultery, you'd have to believe that the original two people were still married.

Isn't that the assertion this entire thread and everyone in it has been making?

The situation is this:
You divorce. You remarry. You don't know Jesus. Years later you come to know him. In an attempt to turn away from wrongdoing let's say you talk to your current spouse and then contact your former spouse and tell them the situation and ask if they want to get back together. They say no, they are remarried and don't want to give it up. My argument is by that point at least your responsibility is severed. You did what you could.

 

[Zaac]

Isn't that the assertion this entire thread and everyone in it has been making?

I guess so. But again, if you're going with THAT assertion, how is it BIBLICAL for say, her, to commit adultery and remarry because she committed adultery?

The situation is this:
You divorce. You remarry. You don't know Jesus.

Doesn't matter.Did you divorce for a BIBLICAL reason?

Years later you come to know him. In an attempt to turn away from wrongdoing let's say you talk to your current spouse and then contact your former spouse and tell them the situation and ask if they want to get back together. They say no, they are remarried and don't want to give it up. My argument is by that point at least your responsibility is severed. You did what you could.

It's not about you doing what you could. Was the original divorce for a BIBLICAL reason? If it was not, then you're both committing adultery by remarrying while the other spouse is living.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I guess so. But again, if you're going with THAT assertion, how is it BIBLICAL for say, her, to commit adultery and remarry because she committed adultery?



Doesn't matter.Did you divorce for a BIBLICAL reason?



It's not about you doing what you could. Was the original divorce for a BIBLICAL reason? If it was not, then you're both committing adultery by remarrying while the other spouse is living.

Going by the assertion that according to God they are still married unless there was a valid reason, they are still married and only divorced according to the laws of the land. Legally they do not have responsibilities to their former spouse, morally they do.
In the situation I provided, it is the same as if the adultery occurred within their legal marriage. If the other person isn't willing to stop, they are committing adultery and the union is dropped in a spiritual, not just legal, sense. The past is irrelevant because it can't be changed, they can only focus on the present and future.

 

[Zaac]

Going by the assertion that according to God they are still married unless there was a valid reason, they are still married and only divorced according to the laws of the land.

That is correct and thus the premise of True Puritan's other thread. Has the church adopted the world's way over God's? In many instances where marriage, divorce and adultery are concerned, it seems the church hasn't corrected or disciplined as it should.

Legally they do not have responsibilities to their former spouse, morally they do.
In the situation I provided, it is the same as if the adultery occurred within their legal marriage. If the other person isn't willing to stop, they are committing adultery and the union is dropped in a spiritual, not just legal, sense. The past is irrelevant because it can't be changed, they can only focus on the present and future.

They were married in the past so the past is ABSOULTELY relevant. You cannot claim divorce over adultery in that manner.

 

[MB]

I, for one, don't understand how we can hold actions prior to salvation against a Christian.

Obviously illegal activities and their civil recourses notwithstanding, I simply don't understand how we, in the Church, can hold actions prior to salvation against someone.

According to the Bible one who is having a sexual relationship with his second wife commits adultery every time they sleep together as long as the first wife is still alive. Whether they were married before Salvation or not. Just because a man finds Salvation after the divorce does not nullify the marriage contract to his first wife.
MB

 

[Kevin]

Well Zaac I want to thank you for freeing me from wasting the rest of my life trying to serve the Lord, when you and your alter ego on the other thread have clearly declared me a unrepentant sinner for being married to a divorced woman. You have determined that I am not allowed to be saved, or in my case was never really saved, or maybe I lost my salvation.

You have made it clear that myself, and all others like me will be in hell while you and the ones you tell Jesus that it is OK to let into His Heaven, party with the angels.

I hope you do everyone at your church a favor, and next Sunday let them in on the rules according to Zaac. If you are a sinner than don't bother coming back, but keep sending your money, pastor needs a new Mercedes.

People like you, with your Legalistic view on things is what is hurting the Church today. Let's give the visitors a checklist to find out what sins they have committed. If you don't go to the westboro baptist church, you should, or maybe yours is already like them.

 

[annsni]

Questdriven - You asked about abuse and I'll tell you what we've told women in that situation (we've dealt only with women but I know that there are men who can be abused as well). We've told them to immediately get out and get safe. We will even have some of our men go over to help when needed so that the woman can get her stuff and leave (and with the children if they are involved). We have at times helped to support the woman in leaving (financially) and the couple MUST be in serious counseling. If for some reason it is deemed that the man is not safe for the woman, we will recommend that she separate from him and in some cases even divorce him (to protect herself and the kids). In most cases the law is involved as well and we will support the woman through the trial and court issues. Abuse is a serious breech of the marriage covenant.

 

[evenifigoalone]

That is correct and thus the premise of True Puritan's other thread. Has the church adopted the world's way over God's? In many instances where marriage, divorce and adultery are concerned, it seems the church hasn't corrected or disciplined as it should.



They were married in the past so the past is ABSOULTELY relevant. You cannot claim divorce over adultery in that manner.

I'm not trying to justify the ORIGINAL divorce. I'm saying that in this situation, the present being at some point long after the divorce, the marriage covenant is absolved because of the actions of the other. The saved individual learned of his mistake and tried to correct it, the other won't have it and continues to live in adultery.

 

[Zaac]

I'm not trying to justify the ORIGINAL divorce. I'm saying that in this situation, the present being at some point long after the divorce, the marriage covenant is absolved because of the actions of the other.

NOPE. Getting divorced for an unBiblical reason and remarrying and having sex with somebody else does NOT release you from the original marriage. What it does is show that confusion and chaos results when people do things the way they want instead of the way God commands.

The saved individual learned of his mistake and tried to correct it, the other won't have it and continues to live in adultery.

Huh? If one is in adultery, so is the other every time they have sex with the person to whom they are not married. God's law doesn't go away just because both unlawfully BIBLICALLY decided to get a divorce. If the divorce BIBLICALLY was invalid, then BIBLICALLY they are still married no matter what they decided to do after the unlawful BIBLICALLY divorce.

They can try all they want. But they are still guilty of adultery every time they have sex with a person to whom they aren't BIBLICALLY married.

A person cannot unBIBLICALLY get divorced, and then claim I've now got a Biblical reason to divorce because the other person committed adultery after the unlawful BIBLICALLY divorce.

 

[evenifigoalone]

NOPE. Getting divorced for an unBiblical reason and remarrying and having sex with somebody else does NOT release you from the original marriage. What it does is show that confusion and chaos results when people do things the way they want instead of the way God commands.



Huh? If one is in adultery, so is the other every time they have sex with the person to whom they are not married. God's law doesn't go away just because both unlawfully BIBLICALLY decided to get a divorce. If the divorce BIBLICALLY was invalid, then BIBLICALLY they are still married no matter what they decided to do after the unlawful BIBLICALLY divorce.

They can try all they want. But they are still guilty of adultery every time they have sex with a person to whom they aren't BIBLICALLY married.

Good grief, I feel like I'm just repeating myself at this point. Clearly we're not getting anywhere. I don't know if you're just being contrary or missing the point or misunderstanding me (it sounds almost like you think I think the adultery on the part of the saved person is what makes the moving on okay, but that is not what I'm saying and never was), or what. Thanks for the discussion, let's agree to disagree.

eta: Just so it's clear, I always drop out of debates before too long, so this isn't unusual for me. A day or two is pretty standard. I appreciate the mental exercise debate gives me, and I really have learned a lot from making myself participate in debates in general. But as someone who dislikes conflict it stresses me out, so I either avoid debate exchanges or drop them after a certain point.