Featured The nature of God's Kingdom

God allowed Satan to have dominion over the world.

What activity was Satan doing?
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Why was Satan going to and fro in the earth and walking up and down it? It was his world. He is the god of it. He had many followers. But Job was not one of them.
Why? Satan claimed the reason that he could not get Job to follow him was that God put a hedge around him to protect him.

Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

Satan was sure that if God removed the hedge then Job would rebel against God and follow him. That is what he wanted. That is what he wants all of us to do.

Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
--Satan is the god of this world. He was at that time (the time of Abraham), and he still is today.

You misquote scripture and fail to understand it.
First of all, Christ is God, deity, man incarnate. He never, at any point in his life, gave up his deity. He always was and always will be God eternal.
Having said that, He always did have "all authority in heaven and on earth," so why should that be any surprise to you (or us)? He is God. Of course he has all power or authority!

Then what does the verse mean?
As One who had just risen from the dead He was speaking of the authority to grant eternal life to those that believe on his name, or from your view, to "all those whom the Father has given him." I equate the two as the same. He had completed the work of redemption; now he has the ultimate authority to grant eternal life to whom he will.
And thus He says:
"And lo I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."

 

If there comes "the red heifer" will it make any difference in your thinking?

See, Icon, when one doesn't hold to a view of other than some Pre-mil, there is a tendency to present as if there is some great illumination or awakening that has happened that makes those who are not persuaded of a Pre-mil view(s) come across as haughty. The same is, of course, found among the Pre-mil who have either no understanding or little tolerance for a view other than what they deem as the only.

For the reader, who would like to know how I personally look at the kingdom statements of Scripture, here is a very brief on the subject.

Certainly, God rules all of his creation, however, as I have posted before, He has delegated authority over various aspects - hence, the "prince and the power of the air" and the "god of this world" is the enemy of the believers.

When Christ said, "My kingdom is not of this world" it is not to say that His kingdom would not come to this world and rule this world. Rather, He was stating the fact that what the rulers of this world expected of the "kingdom" (that is of a literal throne and majestic king) was not what the Lord Jesus would build. But, again, that doesn't mean that one can set aside the statements of the Lord's return to establish the earthly rule of the kingdom of people in which He has formed and which the Father gave.

The question, (imo) may come down to how one perceives the "King of King" and "rod of iron" type statements. Are they literally going to be fulfilled, for there is no such condition existing at this present time, nor in the past, in which "all nations" come to worship, and bring offerings in His presence. After time has ended, and the heaven and earth are no more, the nations do not come to worship nor bring offerings, nor does such occur in the new heaven and earth as recorded in the Revelation, for there is only those of the new heaven and earth, and those of the lake of fire - never the two will mix.

 

Well of course they don't mention Jesus Christ as those were OT veres. But It does mention God ruling the earth, and having dominion. Jesus is God. I think you can connect the dots from there.

No they are not. All the earth is God's. Again read the book of Daniel, God raises kingdoms and he destroys kingdoms all for His purpose.

The same reason God does everything, for His Glory. God in His infinite Wisdom, decreed that He would get the most Glory from having many languages and He used man's depravity as the means to reach His ends.

Satan clearly likes to think of himself as god, so it is no surprise that we would be trying to usurp God's place, but as Job shows he cannot do anything outside of what God allows him to do. Up until the cross God allowed Satan to have a lot more free reign if you will, but at the Cross he was defeated.

I'm deceived for rejecting a dualistic view of the world, and placing God as the supreme ruler over all as the Bible teaches. Ok good to know.

If I was a citizen in Saudi Arabia I would take great comfort in knowing that even the king is under God's control, and that everything that happened to me as a Christian would ultimately be for my good. Even in this country, when I get annoyed at our political issues, I take comfort in knowing that it is God who is the one in control of everything and that He is working it all out for His purpose. I can rest in that.

Already, not yet. He is reigning in heaven right now. He is seated at the right hand of God right now. Everything that is happening is according to His plan.

Please point out where I have denied Total Depravity. Please point out where I advocate antinomianism. Please point out where I am teaching free will?
I'm the one that is saying that God is the one in control and that somehow equates to Free will? I'm the one saying God is in control but that equates to total chaos?
I'm glad to see that you acknowledge the truth of Total Depravity, despite your dislike of Calvinist.

You are the one that makes it a game when you put Satan on par with God as ruler of the world.
Your right it was a temptation of power and glory, would the suffering servant take up his power and glory, that was rightfully his in the first place, outside of God's plan. The fact that the Kingdoms of the world were already Jesus's makes that much more tempting, then Jesus thinking that that the father of lies would actually follow through on his offer of giving Jesus them.

Well that is where you an I differ as I think Satan being given anything that rightfully belongs to God is a major issue.

Like I said you will never admit it so we can all move on. The record can speak for itself.
Although as far as the arguments go, those are really the arguments you are making with a slight variation.
If God is really in control, why would he allow Iran to arrest Christians?
If God is really in control why would he send tornadoes and floods that kill hundreds?

I find it sad that you can't rest in the assurance that everything that happens is for Christian good, and ultimately for God's glory.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:28
That is an amazing promise.

Well at lease you are starting to acknowledge that God is Sovereign. But then you just have to get Satan back in there for some reason. The Bible Makes it clear that God has dominion over the earth, and all that dwells within, even if that affects your sensibilities.
The Bible is what teaches that God is ruling this world, whether it agrees with DHK or not.

 

Context
2:Cor 4
The entire chapter is about how God is working in us, earthen vessels to show His amazing power, for His glory.
Eph 2
Talking about our Total Depravity, but how God saved us out of that Depraved state
Its a wonderful passage about God saving us and making us heirs with Christ.
Eph 6
That passage makes it the most clear that we are not fighting against earthly things. The Christian who lives in Saudi Arabia isn't in a struggle with Saudi Arabia, but with Satan and his demons. I have never denied that there is spiritual warfare going on, I just reject that Satan is the ruler of this world. That again is God and God alone.
1 John 5
This entire Chapter is about how we have overcome the world system, not that we are under its dominion.
Just go back to the previous chapter and it tells us that God is Greater than Satan.
Matt 4
Go ahead keep quoting the father of lies, its not going to make him any more credible.

Nope that is your strawman, but that discussion belongs in another thread.
Again the Bible makes it clear that God is in control of everything, and that man is responsible for his sins. That is all I will say on that as that really belongs in another thread.

I'm going to assume you meant that to say 2 Cor 11:14 since that is what you quote.
What does Satan being the angel of light, which I have never denied, have to do with the claim that he has dominion over the earth? I really couldn't care less about what Satan claims. There is only one kingdom, made up of 2 people groups, saved and unsaved.

 

Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords and HE has dominion over the world.

I just love how you downplay the role of YHWH while making much of what you think is Satan's role. (not really 'love' just making a point)

For the record there is no 'from your view' limiting the Reformed view to merely John 6:37 while disregarding believing on His Name at the same time. That and He was speaking of more than granting eternal life to those He elected from the foundation of the world. Much, much more. This is mitigating of the role of Christ in your system and is clearly witnessed. All need to take notice.

 

Perhaps in the latter part of the chapter, but the first five verses of the chapter don't have any such theme at all. In fact MacDonald says:
In the first six verses of chapter 4, Paul emphasizes the solemn responsibility of every servant of Christ to make the message of the gospel plain. There can be no veil. Nothing must be hidden or mysterious. All must be clear, honest, and sincere.

The importance of the clarity of the gospel is stressed. In doing so Paul emphasizes how the unbeliever's mind is blinded by Satan, who is "the god of this world," a statement of fact. No matter what the context is, he inserts this as a statement of fact, something that the Corinthians need to know. We cannot deny the truth that is stated here. Satan is "the god of this world" and thus has rule over it.

Again, you are referring to the latter portion of the chapter, not to the first three verses which don't talk about salvation at all.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
--There is no salvation here, just the condemnation of man before his salvation. He is entrapped by Satan and his ways. Here is a description of Satan as well:
--The prince of the power of the air;
--the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience.
This is who you obeyed. This is who owned you. You walked according to HIS world before you were saved. You were his citizen. You were his child, even a child of wrath. He is the god of this world, and you were his. There is no salvation here, only condemnation.

If there is spiritual warfare then who are we warring against? Who is the enemy? If Christ is ruling now with "all authority in heaven and in earth who is the enemy? If he is the King of kings, who is the enemy?
He isn't ruling, for when he does there will be perfect peace and there will be no enemy. He will rule with a rod of iron, and Satan will be locked up for that period of time--a thousand years. But now Christ is not ruling, and it is evident that this world is not of Christ, but of Satan. Sin rules. Satan rules. What is done now on this earth is not of God. Go to Saudi Arabia and see for yourself, firsthand.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
--Who are these "principalities, powers, the rulers of the darkness of this world, and the spiritual wickedness in high places"? Certainly it isn't from the reign of Christ!

That doesn't mean that every verse speaks about overcoming the world system. John does not have such a one-track mind.
"..., and the whole world lieth in wickedness." Nothing that is said in the chapter negates this truth.
Is John lying? Did he say an untruth when he stated this. Is it uninspired? Should we rip it out of our Bibles? Then what??

Never said he wasn't. But that doesn't mean that Satan is not ruling now. It also does not negate the many promises that Christ is coming again to reign on this earth in the Millennial Kingdom. Those promises have not yet been fulfilled.

Look at the differences:
the kingdoms (plural) of the WORLD vs. the kingdom (singular) of GOD.
The kingdoms of Satan vs. the kingdom of God.
A real temptation vs. no temptation.
--You make a mockery of the temptation of Christ by your belief.

It is a simple matter of interpretation:
God is in control vs. God allows. It is answered by a simple exegesis of Job chapter one.
God doesn't control every part of our lives. You know that; I know that. Our sin is our responsibility. We cannot blame God for it.

 

You are so right Icon. So why do you do it? Post after post after post.
My answer was to you calling me not being "spiritually discerned," or inferring that I was not saved.
So many of your posts question my salvation. "It is only for the spiritually discerned," (not you).
"You are not spiritually discerned." (You come right out and say at times. I don't call you unsaved, but you tell me in so many words that I am unsaved. Now you have the intestinal fortitude to say "this is not helpful"????????
Yeah, your right! It is not helpful. So when are you going to stop? Please tell!

Well good for you. Where is the evidence? I have established that the kingdom of Satan is ruling now.
I have used plenty of Scripture that only Blessedwife318 has even made an attempt to answer. But there is no scripture that points to an established kingdom of God on this earth in the here and now. You haven 't given any evidence.

Christ is coming and "HE" will establish HIS Kingdom yet in the future.

[QUOTE]He said very plainly that he was not setting up his kingdom when he was alive[/QUOTE],
Yes, that means he will set it up in the future when he comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels. At what time in history has that happened.

Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
--They were to mind their own business for the time being. Christ would not come now, but he would come. Now it was their business to be a witness, to evangelize. The kingdom would have to wait. Christ still had not come by ca. 98 A.D. when John wrote Revelation, as he ended the book by praying "Even so come Lord Jesus," more than 20 years after Titus destroyed Jerusalem.

How many times does Christ come? He comes at the rapture and at the end of the Tribulation to set up His Kingdom. Are you saying there is a third coming?

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
--No matter which way you look at it, it speaks of His Coming.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
--He is coming again, coming in power. It cannot be denied.

 

Exactly God is using us, earthly vessel's as His means to spread the Gospel, and we should take that responsibility seriously.

world system or even better translation age. He is not the god of this earth. Satan does not have dominion over this earth.

You must have missed verse 1 since that is clearly about salvation. And yes the rest is about our total depravity.

Yeah your describing total depravity here. And people don't need Satan to sin, they can do that quite well on their own being carried away by their own lust. Total depravity doesn't prove Satan's dominion.

Satan. But that doesn't prove he has dominion over the earth. By the way that should be on earth if you are referencing Matt 28:18. Notice His authority is now, present tense.

This is where we disagree. Even when I was a Dispensationalist, I said that that God was in Control. Even then I fought tooth and nail against the idea of Satan having dominion over the earth. It was you and DC showing how the idea of Satan having dominion is consistent with Dispensatiolism that was the final straw for me to leave it. So quoting your eschatological frame work is not going to convince me now, if it didn't convince me when I was a Dispensationalist.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
--Who are these "principalities, powers, the rulers of the darkness of this world, and the spiritual wickedness in high places"? Certainly it isn't from the reign of Christ!
Satan. Spiritual warfare does not mean God is not ruling. That would be like saying Obama is not the President because we are at war with Isis.

Why would we rip 1 John out of the Bible? Of course it is inspired. Are you upset that it doesn't agree with you when it makes a point that it is God who is the supreme ruler?

Again if I didn't believe that Satan had dominion when I was a Dispensationalist why would dispensational arguments convince me now?

I'm mocking God for saying he is the supreme ruler. Ok good to know.

I don't blame God for me sin, nor do I blame Satan. My sin is mine alone, but that doesn't negates God's Sovereignty.

 

So according to you walking around makes one the god of this world, that is an interesting definition, and I guess if that is what you are going with there are a lot of god's of this world.

Well I guess it was a good thing that God some how managed to sneak into Satan's dominion and put a hedge of protection around Job. Satan really slipped up letting God get any kind of foothold in his world. I mean what would have happened if God had not been able to sneak behind Satan's back. (Note the above is heavy sarcasm)
The fact that God chose Job, and chose Abram shows that he is the supreme ruler, not Satan. The fact that Satan could do no more then God allowed shows that God is the one with all Dominion.

It's a pretty straight forward verse an no I did not misquote it nor do I misunderstand it. Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth.

oh oh maybe we are getting somewhere. Yes Jesus is God from all eternity. Yes he did always have all authority in heaven and on earth. I'm sorry that was a surprise to you but maybe it's progress. Yes he does have all have all power and authority.

Wow we just may be getting somewhere if you keep this line if thought going. He has He ability to save all who He wills since is the ruler of the world.

 

I have always wondered about the exact location of heaven, where is heaven? Will God turn this earth to be heaven when we all die? I think that this earth is still God's Kingdom because He first created us here.