Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Buy truth, and do not sell it; buy wisdom, instruction, and understanding. - Proverbs 23:23
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The nature of God's Kingdom
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
Good advice. Have you taken it yet.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Your words weren't twisted, your stance has been evolving, bobbing and weaving like a ship on a storm tossed sea throughout this thread.
The we in his off track quote must only include you and he. It is perfectly clear in Joshua 2 that she was converted. The evidence is there.
Utter nonsense, anything to diminish a text used to prove God's Sovereign reign, even to denying her conversion took place then and there. It is common knowledge and orthodox teaching that her actions and words were evidence of her conversion.
The point of Rahab being introduced was not for your speculations and storytelling.
She demonstrates how God Rules all realms. He rules in heaven, and on earth.
Daniel 4 would teach you the same thing, but you will skip over it and wait until you are eating grass before you learn.
These heathen knew more than you about the Kingdom.
It seems the first part of Hos.4:6 is applicable here:
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge,
You ought to know that the Lord spoke directly to the Patriarchs. They received direct revelation, whereas Rahab had received no revelation at all.
Even in this very account Joshua is confronted by Christ, in a Christophany.
Jos 5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
Jos 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
Had Rahab ever experienced such Revelation? No. She had no revelation of who God was--nothing, zip, nada.
Yes People are destroyed for lack of knowledge, even if by choice for ignoring what the BIble says about God... in their thinking.
You are making an argument from Silence. We know that Rehab is Saved. We know that God saves who He wills. We know that God had no problem prior to the close of the cannon of speaking to people, even in heathen societies, Noah, Job, Abraham etc. She made true statment about God, showing that she had more than general Revelation, but since that statment dethroned Satan you have been trying to explain it away any way that you can.
Heb 11 makes it clear that it was saving faith, because of her actions in saving the spies. Hebrews 11 just gets you every time you try to discount her.
You major on the minors.....you speculate on what could have happened instead of understanding what indeed has already happened.
God includes stories in His word about His work in the History of redemption.
God controls and rules His Kingdom .
This story does not give all the details of the inner workings of the Spirit. You trying to supply your carnal speculations does not undo the work of God.
And you are proclaiming the testimony of a heathen prostitute as evidence of one who has knowledge of the kingdom of God??
Will you also use the testimony of the demons that followed Paul testifying that he was a servant of the most high God?
Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
--The demons also testified the same of Christ.
--Perhaps they know more about the kingdom than you do.
--When confronting Jesus they took Scripture out of context. You are doing the same thing here. Anything to prove your point. This passage has nothing to do with the kingdom.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Exactly. She had revealed knowledge of YHWH, and that He not Satan ruled the heavens and the earth. She showed repentance. She had works. She showed genuine faith. She expected to be delivered. She did all this after 2 witnesses came whom she took in. Sound familiar? She protected these men of God. Obviously dhk was there because he knows know one told her anything about God's Word.
Apparently she heard this:
"I know that the LORD has given you the land, and that the fear of you has fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land melt away before you.
Jos 2:10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon and Og, whom you devoted to destruction.
Sounds like Bible to me. She was converted prior to this and showed evidence of this conversion. Being converted she confessed YHWH as Sovereign LORD over all.
I will take a heathen prostitute who is listed in the Hall of Faith over the Devil as a credible source anyday of the week.
Are you saying that what Rehab said to the spies is wrong? Please tell us where she is wrong in her statment. What Scripture shows that she is wrong in what she says to them.
You mentioned the demons, well even they show us that Jesus has power over them. He cast them out, showing His dominion over them. Paul cast them out in the name of Jesus again showing Jesus Dominion over them.
I am not the one making the argument out of silence. You are.
I freely admit: We don't know for sure at what point in her life she was saved.
However, you are making an argument from silence claiming you know when she was saved. She was a heathen prostitute who made a claim about God based on observation of events in Egypt. No one told her about God. This much we know, for this is what is written for us in the Word. The rest, concerning her salvation, is not revealed. You are making an argument from silence here, not I, for the Scripture gives on concrete proof at what time she was saved:
a. When she made that simple confession in Josh.2:11, or
b. When she actually came out of the city and became a part of the nation of Israel.
--Both are real possibilities.
Chapter and verse?? Before Joshua chapter 2, that is.Exactly. She had revealed knowledge of YHWH, and that He not Satan ruled the heavens and the earth. She showed repentance. She had works. She showed genuine faith. She expected to be delivered. She did all this after 2 witnesses came whom she took in. Sound familiar? She protected these men of God. Obviously dhk was there because he knows know one told her anything about God's Word.
Apparently she heard this:
"I know that the LORD has given you the land, and that the fear of you has fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land melt away before you.
Jos 2:10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon and Og, whom you devoted to destruction.
Sounds like Bible to me. She was converted prior to this and showed evidence of this conversion. Being converted she confessed YHWH as Sovereign LORD over all.
It sounds like hearsay to me. "We have heard..." she said. That is hearsay. She was saved on the basis of hearsay. That is what you believe.
Here is the pot calling the kettle black.
It is your carnal speculations on a verse (like many others) that you take out of its context, and try to prove a predisposed theology that Rahab knew nothing about. Absurd.
Heb 11 doesn't talk about her coming out of the city, it talks about her hiding the spies. So I'm going to go with Hebrews on this one and say she was saved when hid the spies. It is after she hid the spies that she makes the true statment that you are so determined to destroy, since it shows God is the ruler of earth. I guess going after a heathen prostitute is easier then the Psalmist or the Prophets that also tell us that God is the ruler of the earth.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Sounds just like YHWH God who rules all realms;
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:11
In the first chapter he alludes to the wisdom and knowledge they had been given at conversion:
I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge—
even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you— so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, - 1:4-7
God saving in the same manner as always. Imparting conversion and knowledge.
You need to check in and ponder this dhk instead of speaking of Rahab in a derogatory manner:
'Again a voice came to him a second time, "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." Acts 10:15
Yep, YHWH, saving people from their sins since the beginning of time.
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Right, he's adding to Scripture. The Scriptures are clear!
Internet Theologian
Well-Known Member
Utter nonsense and a weak argument to boot. The information she heard was true but you diminish even that as well? WOW! It was truth she heard spoken but it is noted your relentless mitigating of what the Word said. Call it hearsay if you must.
Yes, to you relaying the works of God to another is just hearsay.
And someone could say the same of telling concerning the resurrection. Apply your nonsense to that and is it hearsay too? Sure it is, none of us actually witnessed it, but it is as true as the crossing of the Red Sea. I'm certainly glad the elect when they heard of the resurrection didn't have some preacher telling them it was all based on hearsay.
You have been shown multiple times her conversion in Joshua 2. Scripture stands. It is crystal clear.
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