Featured Alien Baptism

Three comments, brother. First, I agree that we are separated to an extent by doctrine as we teach within our own distinct theologies and we are to be separate in conduct from the world. I disagree that we are to separate from other believers and even other churches that hold different interpretations but instead are to be united in Christ. Being united is holding the same true Gospel (I am not saying to accept baptisms of non-Christian groups, and this is ultimately of course up to the local church ..... We are after all, Baptist ). That said, I would consider it an addition to the gospel to re-baptize anyone who had been biblically baptized already (to include rededication baptisms) as this redefines baptism all together. Baptism is an identification with Christ, not specific local bodies.

Second, our Anabaptist forefathers would also have separated from those Christians in the military, serving public office, police officers, etc. We are indebted to them for their struggles and for standing for truth against Reformed persecutions. Their understanding of separation from the world is slso unbiblical. And their understanding of the atonement is not the traditional Baptist view (although I appreciate their position here,). In short, they are not us.

Third, with your comparison if re-baptizing to becoming a citizen of the US (renouncing your old citizenship) you seem to be implying a different definition of baptism than is in the Bible. What you are saying is that people (if baptized biblically) should renounce their baptism in Christ in order to be baptized into your denomination. It seems that your position views baptism as the Presbyterians view it (as a circumcision of sorts, being baptized into a community).



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I also consider my own growth when I was saved I held different theological views. As I developed (and continued to grow) these positions changed to a great extent. My soteriology changed. My view of election, predestination, church government, civil authority and the responsibility of the believer within secular government....so much has changed. What never changed was my basic understanding of the gospel. I was just as saved, just as baptized in Christ, as then as I am now. For me, I could never reject my baptism.



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I don't believe anyone here would accept an infant baptism since it is not a baptism as per scripture - a believer's baptism. You believe and then are baptized. But I do think many baptisms in other churches/parachurches are valid. As I said, my husband was baptized by believers at the Creation music festival in the 70s. It was not under a church authority but it was a valid believer's baptism.

 

I disagree that the issue is about the authority of the church body (which is Grave's argument) if that is the direction you mean (If not, then I've misunderstood based on the Graves reference....I do believe that baptism is to be administered under biblical authority). It certainly was not true with Philip and the Ethiopian (and if we claim apostolic authority then we are approaching a Catholic understanding). Which reminds me, for all of it's admonishments against the RCC, Landmarkism has always appeared to have an extraordinarily catholic view of the Church when it comes to administering the "sacraments" (which is what the ordinance of baptism approaches when it's effect or legitimacy becomes dependent upon the authenticity of a specific governing body and the minister performing the ceremony).

I also have trouble with the reference, or at least, with accepting J.R. Graves' landmarkism when applied here as he usurped the authority of the local church when faced with church discipline against his own actions. Landmarkism has never been about true Church history, but has always chosen to justify itself by grasping towards the past but has also always come up empty. For Graves, he rebelled against his own church, caused a split, because "Landmarkism" did not really apply to First Baptist Nashville but to his own ideologies. I appreciate his work on several issues and his contributions to the SBC. However, I do believe that his view here was in error (and in theory, anyone could and many have taken up his doctrine and applied it to their own situations). But that's just a side note.

Again, I took your comment to be a reference to baptism under scriptural authority to mean under the authority of a specific church or denomination. I did so based on the J.R. Graves quote. If, however, I have misunderstood your comment and intention, then please accept my apologies. I believe baptism is to be performed under the authority of Scripture as a function of the Body of Christ but that it's validity depends on the one being baptized rather than the minister or local body performing the ordinance.

 

I'd say both. I think it important that the local church baptize, but I believe baptism alludes to the believers status in Christ and not necessarily the local church (I don't think the Ethiopian would have needed to be rebaptized if he decided to join the church in Corinth).

So its an ordinance given to the Church, not as an indication with a local assembly but Christ. To re-baptize someone biblically baptized is to redefine biblical baptism. The ongoing ordinance is the Lord's Supper.

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Under what local church authority was the man baptized?

I agree it is Church authority insofar as the ordinance is given to the Church and performed by members of the Church (whether local churches or Christians).

Probably a better example would Conrad Grebel. But for illustration, suppose you were a layperson not formerly authorized by a local church (or not even a member,) and you witnessed to me, I am saved and ask you to baptize me. Regardless of whether you should or shouldn't, you do. I am saved, baptized by immersion, in the name of the Trinity, identifying with Christ through His death, burial, and resurrection. Does my baptism count?

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Yes, that's what I'm asking.

Where is the legitimacy of ones baptism determined by the person doing the baptism in Scripture?
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