Featured Faith? Where does it come from?

No... the agap- lemma has been abused by the uninformed. Linguists note that the semantic range of the word is limited mainly by its context. In this case, there is very little difference between the fil- lemma and agap-.

And as your quote included, physical love was part of the passage. And that is just 1 of a number of examples. The point is,.. you are simply mistaken and repeating the same errors that linguistis have long since corrected.

 

Mark 6:6 And he was amazed at their lack of faith.

Had Jesus caused their lack of faith by refusing to grant them faith, then Jesus should not have been amazed. His omniscience that they would lack of faith might still present amazement in the moment at just how hard-hearted _they_ had become, but not if he were the one who had caused their lack of faith.

Matt. 8:10 When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, “I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

The same goes for the centurion in Matt 8:10. Why was Jesus astonished? If this were the only person Jesus had granted such faith to, certainly he shouldn't have been astonished. Yet it says Jesus was astonished at this man's exercise of faith.

It should be said, that I don't think anyone here would say that people can exercise faith in God without the assistance of the Holy Spirit. But to say that "God does it all, even the believing," is the same as saying that God believes in himself, which is absurd, since it is not God who must do the believing, but man.

 

No one says God does the believing, but God does say He grants the faith. Some things are descriptive and other things are prescriptive in Scriptures. The only salvation for the lost is of course God's grace, not the exercise of innate faith.

 

Bluefalcon,
You make a great point and pose a great question that no one on BB has ever answered.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo using Tapatalk.

 

Of course not, not if it is actual fruit produced by the Holy Spirit.

 

You deliberately confuse this issue, and I don't know why.
You admit that you can trust your wife and that an unsaved man can do the same, that is have faith in his wife. That is because faith is innate. It was Jesus that demonstrated this when he used children as an example. Unless you have faith as a child you cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Faith is innate.

God does not give spiritual gifts and the fruit of the Spirit to the unsaved, and I never said he did.

But faith that is innate is not a spiritual gift nor is it the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Why are you confusing the two, and deliberately confusing the issue even though you have previously admitted to me that you believe a person (unsaved) can have innate faith (which you call carnal) in their spouse, child, car, etc. You believe this, but you are deliberately leading people astray here. Why the confusion--deliberate confusion?

 

God gives spiritual things to spiritual people. That automatically eliminates the unregenerate. I think on the basis of 1Cor.2:14 you should agree with that. Thus, if faith in any way is described as spiritual, there is no way that God will give that faith to the unregenerate.

Secondly, you need to redefine your word "carnal." Most associate the word "carnal" as "of the flesh" and therefore inherently sinful. Did Jesus ever do anything that was carnal, that is "not spiritual"? How about: walking, sailing in a boat, eating, sleeping, paying taxes, etc. These activities are not in and of themselves spiritual activities. They are "carnal" activities, but not of course wrong. Thus you might use the word "secular," or better yet "natural." That faith which is by "nature" or innate. It isn't "carnal" as in sinful. That is the implication that you are giving.

 

The Lord gives the Holy Spirit to the spiritually dead thereby making them spiritually alive. Without this "quickening" as the ole' KJV renders it --absolutely no one could be regenerated.

What's your point about that passage? It describes a person without the Spirit. The Lord in His special time makes particular ones spiritually alive as I have just said. Everyone is spiritually dead unless and until the Lord spiritually arrests them.

 

If not believing in God is a sin, and God is responsible for giving or withholding faith from people, then that would make God guilty of man's sin of not believing, which is absurd, and enough to demolish the entire hypothesis of those who say that God gives and withholds faith from whomsoever he wills.

 

'I will show mercy to whom I show mercy' - God (as in Romans 9:15)

'All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him'. - Jesus (Matthew 11:27)

'But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?' - Romans 9:20

 

Hypothesis: God gives faith to and withholds faith from whomsoever he wills.

Matt. 8:25-26 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!” He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?”

Now were the hypothesis correct, it is remarkable that the Lord should rebuke the disciples for their lack of faith, seeing that he was responsible for the amount of faith the disciples were given.

Matt. 14:31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”

And were the hypothesis correct, in this case the only correct answer to our Lord's inquiry would be, "Because you gave me so little faith. I was only demonstrating what I was given." And this again demonstrates the absurdity of the hypothesis.

 

I'll accept that for now, but if I disagree you will know why.

The faith for the unsaved man is always from man. The object of the faith is also human. Human people and things fail. We are not perfect and the things we make are subject to deterioration and decay. They indeed will fail. But there is One who will never fail. His promises are sure and secure. He never changes and His word endures forever. One can put "his trust" or faith in Him and His promise to be saved and be absolutely confident that "what he had promised, he 'is' able also to perform." (Rom.4:21).
Yes, my car failed some weeks ago. At minus 31 that is to be expected once and a while. Did my faith fail or my car fail. It was more my car than my faith. But I know that man-made things fail so I was not unduly disappointed. It is the object of our faith that is important
Faith is faith. Abraham had faith. His faith was in God, and in his promises, and God never failed him.

I agree. And that faith will grow as our relationship with Him grows.

That should be true as long as one keeps his eyes on Christ. But it isn't always true. Take John the Baptist for example. His faith wavered so much he began to doubt if Christ was the Messiah.

Not for the unsaved person. The objects of his faith change. The nature of the faith is the same. Faith is belief, confidence, trust.

Jesus used this example because of the simplicity of their faith. That is the kind of faith one needs when they come to Christ. Obviously, when one has that simple faith and puts that faith in some other object, such as an idol or a thief, there will be a wrong outcome. But put your faith in Christ will a child-like faith and one will be saved. Jesus was not speaking of a regenerated faith which children do not have.

Not among the unsaved it does't, and you know that.

You are making an assumption based on a false premise.
There is not just one true faith.
1. There is innate faith.
2. There is the gift of faith.
3. There is faith as the fruit of the Spirit.
4. There is "the faith," that body of truth which we believe.
5. There is the spiritual faith given to believers even when they are mature as demonstrated by the disciples. It was when they were coming down from the Mount of Transfiguration, later in his ministry when the disciples said "O Lord increase our faith."
--So faith must be defined by its context. There is not just "one faith."

That is why he needs the gospel. He needs to put his faith in the correct object, that being the Christ of the gospel.
1Pet.1:23 "Being born again...by the Word of God. (the gospel). Without the word of God there is no regeneration.

Yes, more than one faith. But Jesus said that it must be your faith (innate) in order to be saved. God does not give spiritual gifts, etc. to the unsaved. One does not believe with God's faith to be saved.

 

Faith that results in salvation ("by faith you are saved", Eph. 2:8) is not innate to mankind. Mankind is inherently, and utterly, sinful. Sin has corrupted every aspect of the human condition. Faith is "the gift of God" (Eph. 2:9). Man exercises faith by believing, but the ability to believe is supernaturally given.

 

In Ephesians 2:8-9 The gift is salvation not faith.

 

I would like to ask a question relative to your thought.

Gen 2:3 KJV And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. --- The creation was over, however it being through, what from this very moment of being complete to what was it in subjection and Who subjected it?

Romans 8:20 NKJV For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;

Why are we like we are? Has that hope spoken of above come forth in it's totality? No, see verses 8:24,25 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

What was the futility of which the creation was subjected? In hope? Was it not? I am carnal,of the flesh, sold under sin? After all the, in hope, is the adoption, the redemption of the body, verse 23. Redemption = to be bought back.

From before the foundation of the world God had a plan for what was to be created which included redemption. See 1 Peter 1:18-20 KJV Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Who is the seller and who redeemed that which he sold?

And that my friends is the faithfulness of God.


BTW Why did God do the above in the manner he did? Answer Because Satan the devil that old serpent was on the earth when God said Let there be light.

What was God going to do concerning Satan?

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 Forasmuch then as the children (Of Adam,man) are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Hebrews 2:14

 

If Adam was created in a manner of which he could and would not sin and bring death, then God would not be able to destroy him and his works.

Create man, sell man in the flesh and buy him back, redeem him in spirit, incorruptible.