Where do I Find Rapture in Revelation?

[vooks]

Again, the Rapture of the Church is not found in Revelation.
.

Thank you.
It must be a very insignificant event that John overlooked it. Far less significant than the resurrection of the unjust

 

[Darrell C]

They are resurrected first and everyone is amazed. Then called up to heaven. Farfetched thinking is required to call it rapture

Splitting hairs is your forte. So where did he go? Mars?

Fertile imagination

When did he die?
He returned from the heavenly trip?

He says he will send His angels. Ever read the gospels?

Nothing serious to respond to.

1 Cor 15 is mighty clear; BOTH rapture and resurrection are separated by a fraction of a moment. Paul repeats this in Thessalonians

Please show this in Scripture, I would like to see Paul separate the Rapture and Resurrection with a fraction of a moment.

Already explained

Hairs split again. What is the difference between an event and its occurrence? Timing? If it is timing, Paul still went to talk about it. Why is John silent on it? Was it a mystery for John but not Paul?

Nothing serious to respond to.

What's the difference between an event and its occurrence?

You tell me.

They both reveal resurrection, so what's your point?

Strawmen. We have no clue when ANY of the events recorded in Revelation will transpire yet they are all there. So it is silly to claim John kept off rapture because nobody knows it's timing


Let the defense be sensible and you got yourself a buddy. I'm so in love with reason and logic and at the same time allergic to nonsense

Again, nothing to respond to. It would help if you would actually address what I have said and counter with Scripture.

John's experience whether physical or spiritual is John's and you MUST not extrapolate that to the church

You said it was physical, show from Scripture how it was physical.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Thank you.
It must be a very insignificant event that John overlooked it

So only what is revealed in Revelation is significant? And if it is not found there it's not a reality?


God bless.

 

[vooks]

Nothing serious to respond to.
Please show this in Scripture, I would like to see Paul separate the Rapture and Resurrection with a fraction of a moment.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (KJV)
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

You said it was physical, show from Scripture how it was physical.


God bless.

Irrelevant whether in body or in spirit. I said physical because I have no reason not to see it that way. Already he tells us he was in the spirit, so how can it be a spiritual experience in the spirit.

Regardless,
Only desperate cultists would read rapture in John's activities

 

[Darrell C]

It also well known that scriptures separate resurrection of the unjust from that of the just. What do we work with? The 'understanding of the Jews or scriptures'?

And that is one point made which reiterates the Mystery of the Rapture.

As I said, Old Testament understanding viewed there to be one resurrection, and that both Just and unjust alike would be raised at the same time.

Paul revealed not only will there be a resurrection which involves the entire Church, but he revealed what type of body they would be raised in. Another unknown aspect was that at this time the Church would be caught up into Heaven.

An example of building doctrine from the deficiency of OT revelation

This is true, which is why those that teach a singular event should acknowledge that there is more than one resurrection from the dead.

None I can find.
But Holy Spirit tells me there is a resurrection in Rev 20:4 and all its participants will never go through the second death, and there is another reported in Rev 20:5 happening in 20:11-13

Which is not what you were just saying:

You do not make any sense at all. Resurrection in Rev 20 is for the just. The unjust either remain dead or alive on earth and they Re the ones Satan gather to fight

They are raised from the dead in bodies suited for eternal punishment.

Oh yes they are in 20:11-13

?

An even simpler fact is the Just are raised in 20:4 while the Unjust are raised much later in 20:11-13

That is correct.

And their respective resurrection are a thousand years apart. Not sure if this is literal but what is clear is Holy Spirit tells me they are separate events

I also told you that a few posts back.

Yes and this is why after they are raised in Rev 20:11-13, they are judged and sent straight to hell

That is correct.


God bless.

 

[vooks]

So only what is revealed in Revelation is significant? And if it is not found there it's not a reality?
God bless.

Not just what is significant, but the MOST significant event church calendar.

Resurrection is immediately followed by rapture of the living if Paul is a credible witness of what Holy Spirit inspired him to transmit. The only reason pre-trib cultists refuse rapture in Rev 20:4 is because it happens after tribulation. So they have to relegate that to something else.

According to them, the resurrection of all the saints from Pentecost to rapture date is nothing, but a mystery because we don't know it's timing yet John had enough time to write about resurrection of sinners

 

[Darrell C]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (KJV)
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


Irrelevant whether in body or in spirit. I said physical because I have no reason not to see it that way. Already he tells us he was in the spirit, so how can it be a spiritual experience in the spirit.

Regardless,
Only desperate cultists would read rapture in John's activities

I gave you Scripture which is a good reason not to see it that way.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.

Men do not go to Heaven in physical bodies.

And again, as I have said repeatedly, we do not find the Rapture of the Church in Revelation.

And could you explain this:

Already he tells us he was in the spirit, so how can it be a spiritual experience in the spirit.

God bless.

 

[vooks]

And that is one point made which reiterates the Mystery of the Rapture.

As I said, Old Testament understanding viewed there to be one resurrection, and that both Just and unjust alike would be raised at the same time.

Paul revealed not only will there be a resurrection which involves the entire Church, but he revealed what type of body they would be raised in. Another unknown aspect was that at this time the Church would be caught up into Heaven.

John tells us of multiple resurrection with the first one happening in Reveltion 20:4

This is true, which is why those that teach a singular event should acknowledge that there is more than one resurrection from the dead.

The first of which is Revelation 20:4

 

[Darrell C]

Not just what is significant, but the MOST significant event church calendar.

Resurrection is immediately followed by rapture of the living if Paul is a credible witness of what Holy Spirit inspired him to transmit. The only reason pre-trib cultists refuse rapture in Rev 20:4 is because it happens after tribulation. So they have to relegate that to something else.

According to them, the resurrection of all the saints from Pentecost to rapture date is nothing, but a mystery because we don't know it's timing yet John had enough time to write about resurrection of sinners

Again, it is impossible for the Rapture to take place at the end of the Tribulation, as there would be no physical people on the earth.

When you can reconcile that perhaps you might be able to support a Post-Trib view.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

John tells us of multiple resurrection with the first one happening in Reveltion 20:4

The first of which is Revelation 20:4

Again, as mentioned from the beginning of this conversation...you are forgetting the resurrection of the Two Witnesses.

Though you erroneously present their resurrection as bodily only, you have acknowledged that it is a resurrection, making this statement erroneous as well.


God bless.

 

[vooks]

I gave you Scripture which is a good reason not to see it that way.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.

Except visiting heaven is not inheriting the kingdom of heaven. Paul tells us of one caught up either in flesh or in spirit. If it is impossible to visit heaven bodily, then he obviously need to sit under you for some free classes

Men do not go to Heaven in physical bodies.

Biblical evidence please not just wild claims. And before you do, read the above comment

And again, as I have said repeatedly, we do not find the Rapture of the Church in Revelation.

And nor do you find resurrection of the church?
In short 1Thes 4:15-17 is totally absent from Revelation?

And could you explain this:




God bless.

In what, Surinamese?

 

[vooks]

Again, it is impossible for the Rapture to take place at the end of the Tribulation, as there would be no physical people on the earth.

When you can reconcile that perhaps you might be able to support a Post-Trib view.


God bless.

Repeating a claim is no evidence of the claim.

Why is it impossible?
I pray the absurdity of your baseless claim will smack you across your face

 

[Darrell C]

Except visiting heaven is not inheriting the kingdom of heaven. Paul tells us of one caught up either in flesh or in spirit. If it is impossible to visit heaven bodily, then he obviously need to sit under you for some free classes

Paul makes it clear he is not sure whether in body or spirit.

Secondly, this is a Post-Cross event. Paul was a redeemed believer, which would not, in that perspective, inhibit his going there.

Third, while we know God can do what He wants to do in this regard, we know He does not contradict Himself, meaning, if He says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, that denies the possibility of Enoch and Elijah going there, and it makes it highly unlikely that Paul went there physically.

Fourth, inheriting the Kingdom of God is not really distinct from "visiting" Heaven.

Consider:


1 Corinthians 15:50-51

King James Version (KJV)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


The entire point of the Chapter is to explain the resurrection of the dead and the body we are raised in. Paul makes it clear that flesh and blood, the natural body, does not partake of the Kingdom of God. We know this does not refer to the spiritual rule and reign of God, and adding to that the context of this teaching it makes it clear that flesh and blood does not go into Heaven.

However, if you want to think it can, have at it. I am still waiting for the Scripture that teaches Enoch and Elijah went into Heaven. Do you plan on bringing any Scripture to the table?

Will you make this...


1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

...void?

Or this...

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

...?

Biblical evidence please not just wild claims. And before you do, read the above comment

It's your turn to supply some Scripture.

I think you have thus far provided one quote.

Show the Scripture that teaches Enoch and Elijah went to Heaven, thus cancelling out the teaching of Christ.

And nor do you find resurrection of the church?
In short 1Thes 4:15-17 is totally absent from Revelation?

Not sure how you come up with this. Where do I say there is no resurrection in the Church, and what do you do with the many posts that have repeated the same position again and again?

Again, the Rapture is not found in Revelation.

In what, Surinamese?

?


Okay, about out of time. Let's see some Scripture Vooks. You have been asked several times to provide a Biblical Basis for your views, so let's begin with Enoch and Elijah going to Heaven in their flesh and blood bodies.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Repeating a claim is no evidence of the claim.

Why is it impossible?
I pray the absurdity of your baseless claim will smack you across your face

So present a Biblical Basis to support the Rapture taking place at the end of the Tribulation, unbelievers entering the Millennial Kingdom, and where the rebellious unbelievers at the end of the Kingdom come from.

You can begin by showing how Matthew 25 does not make it clear that unbelievers are, as taught in Scripture repeatedly, destroyed prior to the Kingdom being established.

As far as repeating, that is necessary when the same questions are repeated.


God bless.

 

[vooks]

Again, as mentioned from the beginning of this conversation...you are forgetting the resurrection of the Two Witnesses.

Though you erroneously present their resurrection as bodily only, you have acknowledged that it is a resurrection, making this statement erroneous as well.


God bless.

And Lazarus' before that. We got plenty of resurrections before the FIRST

 

[vooks]

So present a Biblical Basis to support the Rapture taking place at the end of the Tribulation, unbelievers entering the Millennial Kingdom, and where the rebellious unbelievers at the end of the Kingdom come from.

Matthew 24:29-30 (KJV)
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Jesus is coming AFTER the tribulation.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (KJV)
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Rapture is at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ

[quote-2You can begin by showing how Matthew 25 does not make it clear that unbelievers are, as taught in Scripture repeatedly, destroyed prior to the Kingdom being established.[/quote]
What part of Matthew 25 supports pre-trib nonsense?

As far as repeating, that is necessary when the same questions are repeated.


God bless.

You are repeating the same nonsense as evidence of your claim. Once again, how does post-trib rapture conflict ANY scripture?

 

[vooks]

Paul makes it clear he is not sure whether in body or spirit.

Was Paul unaware that flesh can't go to heaven? Because he can only be uncertain of the nature of the visit if he is ignorant.

Secondly, this is a Post-Cross event. Paul was a redeemed believer, which would not, in that perspective, inhibit his going there.

So were the two witnesses. Or you imagine they are prophesying about Mises?

Third, while we know God can do what He wants to do in this regard, we know He does not contradict Himself, meaning, if He says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, that denies the possibility of Enoch and Elijah going there, and it makes it highly unlikely that Paul went there physically.

Inheriting the kingdom is different from visiting heaven bodily. The contradiction is a figment of your imagination

Fourth, inheriting the Kingdom of God is not really distinct from "visiting" Heaven.

So how come Paul was ignorant of this fact?

Consider:


1 Corinthians 15:50-51

King James Version (KJV)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

The same Paul who was not sure if he bodily visited heaven?

The entire point of the Chapter is to explain the resurrection of the dead and the body we are raised in. Paul makes it clear that flesh and blood, the natural body, does not partake of the Kingdom of God. We know this does not refer to the spiritual rule and reign of God, and adding to that the context of this teaching it makes it clear that flesh and blood does not go into Heaven.

However, if you want to think it can, have at it. I am still waiting for the Scripture that teaches Enoch and Elijah went into Heaven. Do you plan on bringing any Scripture to the table?

I'm also waiting for proof that they went elsewhere. Care to teach me where they went? And if you are regurgitating that Hades nonsense, back it up

Will you make this...


1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

...void?
So what did Moses and Isaiah see?

Or this...

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

...?

where was Jesus as he spoke these words?

It's your turn to supply some Scripture.

I think you have thus far provided one quote.

Show the Scripture that teaches Enoch and Elijah went to Heaven, thus cancelling out the teaching of Christ.

Which word would going to heaven cancel?

Not sure how you come up with this. Where do I say there is no resurrection in the Church, and what do you do with the many posts that have repeated the same position again and again?

Is rapture of saints a separate event from resurrection of the saints?

Again, the Rapture is not found in Revelation.

What about resurrection of the saints?

Okay, about out of time. Let's see some Scripture Vooks. You have been asked several times to provide a Biblical Basis for your views, so let's begin with Enoch and Elijah going to Heaven in their flesh and blood bodies.


God bless.

Because there is nowhere else they could have gone

 

[Darrell C]

And Lazarus' before that. We got plenty of resurrections before the FIRST

So what does that mean?

It means that the First Resurrection of Revelation 20 is not the first in a perspective of Sequence. In regards to bodily redemption the First is Christ's Resurrection.


God bless.

 

[vooks]

So what does that mean?

It means that the First Resurrection of Revelation 20 is not the first in a perspective of Sequence. In regards to bodily redemption the First is Christ's Resurrection.


God bless.

And it also means Jesus is not the resurrection seeing there were other resurrections before his incarnation.

Stupidity know no bounds. And I need not mention that the 'other' resurrections&/raptures are recorded

Once again,
Why is pre-trib rapture &/resurrection totally absent from Revelation?

 

[vooks]

So Revelation a book written to the Church is totally silent on the fate of the dead and living saints, while meticulously detailing the fate of sinners?