Featured Where do I Find Rapture in Revelation?

No Rapture found here.

While Christ does indeed come, this coming and the Return are two separate events.

Revelation 19 makes it clear that the Saints are with Him already. We do not see a resurrection at His Return until the Tribulation Martyrs are raised.

First, that the Lord comes at the Rapture is not in dispute.

Secondly, I would ask that you actually answer these question, which do not focus on the Rapture.

You have a couple of pages already stating why.

I tell you a primary reason...

And you ignore it.

When you can start addressing all of the points it will sink in why a Post-Trib Rapture is not only impossible, it is not found in the Timeline of events listed in Revelation.


God bless.

 

He makes it clear he is ignorant:

2 Corinthians 12:2

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Right. But...they go to Heaven. That is clear.

They are caught up.

There is a difference between an inheritance and inheriting. Only in inheriting is there actually a reception of the inheritance.

Paul's point is that we do not receive Heaven in natural bodies.

You nullify the teaching by suggesting men can, in natural bodies, receive Heaven.

Paul was ignorant as to whether it was bodily or spiritual. He just did not know. While there are exceptions at times to general rules, we cannot ignore the fact that both John and Christ, as well as the Lord in the Old Testament...all said men could not, and did not enter Heaven, or even gaze upon Him.

That would have been death according to the Lord:


Exodus 33:19-20

King James Version (KJV)

19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

You ignore the point.

It is clear that flesh and blood does not go to Heaven.

First, I am going to demand your Scripture to support your view that Enoch and Elijah went to Heaven.

Secondly, I would ask you if you believe the unjust went to Heaven. That in itself demands the "elsewhere" you are looking for.

And third, here is Christ teaching that dead men did not go to Heaven:



Luke 16:19-23

King James Version (KJV)

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.


If you can make this mean Lazarus went to Heaven, I'd like to see it. If you can do that, then we will move on to other passages that make it clear that no man entered into Heaven prior to the Cross of Christ.

You have ignored those already given.

As mentioned several times, they went to Hades/Sheol.

Just a Biblical Fact.

You deny that Hades is real?

Where do you think the lost go when they die in this Age?

In regards to Moses, he did not see God, not to mention the fact that God had come to him, not Moses to Heaven.

In regards to Isaiah, please present the Scripture that has Isaiah seeing God.

On earth, and according to this translation...also in Heaven. Which is possible due to the fact that He is God, and God never ceases to be God, nor is God ever divided from Himself.

Some manuscripts do not have "which is in Heaven."

Quite a few. How about starting with ones already supplied? You have not addressed those yet.

Answer the question.

Which one?

I asked for a Scriptural Basis, though I know it is not to be found. You know this as well, which is why you do not provide Scripture.


God bless.

 

And this is where you make a mistake: all resurrections prior to Christ's were bodily resurrections only. Christ is the Firstfruits, the Firstborn from the Dead. His is the First Resurrection in regards to glorification.

Everyone who was resurrected in the Old Testament died again.

This is a documented fact.

Thank you for your participation.

Interesting.

You have in fact been kicking against the fact that other Resurrections are mentioned, as well as rapture events, primarily the Two Witnesses.

I didn't say resurrection is absent, but the Rapture of the Church only.

I have consistently pointed out that there are three resurrections listed in the events of Revelation, beginning with the resurrection and rapture of the Two Witnesses (which negates a possibility that sequence is the proper understanding of the word first in the First Resurrection.

Now, where is your Scripture that states Enoch and Elijah went to Heaven?


God bless.

 

This has zero relevance to anything I have said.

Revelation has numerous passages dealing with the fate of the dead and living saints. This has in fact been the topic's primary issue.


God bless.

 

We meet the Lord in the air, we are caught up into the clouds. This is His coming for the Church.

In His Return...He returns to the Earth to take control.

Zechariah 14

King James Version (KJV)

1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

This part:


Revelation 19:11-14

King James Version (KJV)

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

I don't define it...Scripture defines it.

In the Rapture, for example, Christ collects us personally. In the events described in regards to His Return...Angels gather.

In the Rapture, we meet Him in the Air. In the Return, He returns to earth.

No, there will be a seven year period, at least, before He returns.

 

I have addressed each resurrection which is actually found in Revelation already. How do you see them omitted?

The only resurrection that is not found in Revelation (in regards to men) is the Rapture of the Church. We don't find it there because it does not happen during or after the tribulation.


God bless.

 

How is this supplying Scripture that supports the view they went to Heaven?

That is my only question for you at this point. You are repeating the same questions which tells me you are not interested in a discussion.

Have to get going, so have a great day.


God bless.