Featured What are your thoughts on Jesus quoting "Ye are gods" ?

Those judges were called "gods" as they were divinely appointed. How much more, then, would this apply to the One God sanctified and sent.

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If you are considering, brother, that God misunderstood Scripture then you have a serious misshapen view not only of inspiration but of God. Scripture reveals God, and this is no exception (it is, in fact, a stark revelation). So if you’re pondering whether God has misunderstood then please rest assured that the misunderstanding rests squarely in your court.

 

The point of John 10:34 is that the truth of Jesus’ claims was substantiated by the Scripture of the Jews themselves. Jesus defends his statement by quoting Psalm 82:6 – ‘I said, “You are ‘gods’; you are all sons of the Most High, all of you; never the less, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince.” (or, “fall as one man, O princes”).

Jesus uses the passage to prove that the word ‘god’ is used to refer to others than God himself. What your comments seem to be missing is Jesus’ point. If those other than God can be referred to as ‘gods’ and it not be blasphemy then how much more is it appropriate for the One whom God sanctified and sent to refer to himself as the Son of God. The logic is there regardless as to the identity of those who God has appointed to rule over those men in Psalm 82.

I know of at least four interpretations of Psalm 82. That the psalm speaks of angelic beings is in my view the worst interpretation. It would (like Hebrews) emphasize Christ’s superiority over angelic beings, but it does more damage than good. Angelic beings do not “die like men”. The Word of God came to men (specifically, Israel), not angels. And of course, given the context of Psalm 82, the angels God would be calling ‘gods’ would be unjust (demons). It is a poor interpretation.

The one I suggest is that the quote carries along with it the entire Psalm, and v. 8 is understood to be a prophecy fulfilled in the ministry of Christ. God is speaking to Israel at the giving of the Law. The curse that fell on Israel was in consequence of their idolatry. The Word of God came to Israel at Sinai, but Israel’s rebellion led to the death of that entire generation. Israel is called ‘gods’ as recipients of the Word of God.

The second reasonable interpretation is that this is referring to the judges appointed by God over Israel. Here they would be called ‘gods’ because of their appointment. But here the emphasis of the Word of God coming to them would not form a strong support.

 

Then you have my apologies. I didn't know why you would have made the statement unless you had considered it a possibility (as neither of our interpretations hint at that conclusion).

I think that you may want to study the word “Elohim” and its usage. The world is used, of course, for God. But it is also used for false gods, angels, and human leaders (it is used about 250 times to speak of angels or pagan deities). But we also see it used to refer to Moses, Samuel, and by the KJV usage to judges (Ex. 21:622:8 and 22:9). Regardless, if Elohim can refer to anything less than God then the logic remains.

The conversation would be understood in any of the interpretations, and any would result in the Jews wanting to kill Jesus (it would still be magnifying Jesus over the unjust “gods.”

 

I agree the meanings are the same, but I disagree that Jesus is speaking of heavenly beings. Neither text (Psalms or John) necessitates that interpretation and I believe both texts (and Hebrew tradition) confirm a different interpretation. I do not believe the Jews would have believed "gods" to mean heavenly beings who judge poorly, but I do think all three (the Psalmist, Jesus, and the audience) would have understood those in question to be men (more specifically, Israel).

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Thank you, Tom, for an interesting discussion. On this post I observe that you are blending context and forming a meaning by stringing John 10:34, Psalm 82 and John 5:22 together. Scripture defines scripture, but I would suggest that your argument may benefit from a more systematic method as it appears to me that you have come up with a conclusion and are grasping at any and all verses that may appear to support your conclusion.

John 5:22 offers neither support for your position nor defense against mine (and I do believe Psalm 82:8 to be Messianic). God has judged (the world is already condemned) and the Father has committed all judgment unto the Son. And you are right, Psalm 82 does not speak of “men in Heaven” (I’m not sure where you came up with the idea anyone was arguing that it did).

I believe a failing to the theory you offer is that Jesus characterizes those who are addressed in Psalm 82 as those “to whom the word of God came.” The audience in John 10 would interpret this to be all of Israel. The context of the psalm, I believe, hints at this to be leaders of Israel. In other words, Jesus’ comment to the Jews was not only a testimony of his superiority (he called them gods to whom the word of God came, how much more appropriate is it then to attribute that title to the one whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world…the Word himself) but it was also an indictment against them (they are the ones to whom the word of God came….and they are unjust). Also consider that God calls Israel his “firstborn son.”