Featured Calvinist/Arminian Baptist Brethren Identify Yourselves!

Probably more Patton than Arnold's.

Arnold's "I'll be back".Biggrin

 

It's 'I'll be Bach'.

http://www.thecomicstrips.com/store/add.php?iid=47000

 

I am Reformed Baptist. Lordship Salvationist before it was labelled as such. I believe in preaching the Gospel unto salvation; Romans 1:16, and as DMLJ said after he was asked why he preaches the Gospel stated; 'Because the Gospel works'.

Most importantly I am a child of the living God. I was lost but now am found. His Grace is operating within me; Philippians 2:12-13.

 

If we are to prove everything by the scripture with His help, we can't take Calvin's side just because we agree with mostly everything Calvin has said as being scriptural truth because not everything he said can be backed by scripture.

I agree with the first, but the second needs some clarification that can be seen as reproof for what unconditional election should mean.

Man cannot save himself as in agreement with point # 1, but there is a method to God's choosing whom He will save from those that He will not.

God knows whom are seeking Him to be saved by Him from those that prefer their evil deeds rather than come to the Light to be reproved of them.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

So not only is our believing is a work of God Himself, but the Father chooses whom He reveals His Son to and thus enabling us to believe from those that prefer their evil deeds.

Jesus warned about this to His disciples as well as giving them a promise of how God is at work saving people.

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

So the Father is a work here in choosing whom He will draw and reveal His Son to.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.....65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

We can see proof of how God the Father works in choosing whom to save between whom were seeking Him from those that were not at the time in the Book of Acts.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

So God the Father knew people were seeking Him spiritually in Macedonia at that time whereas they were not seeking Him spiritually at that time in Asia nor Bithynia, even if they were both not consciously seeking Him or consciously not seeking Him, but the Father knew whom would receive His Son from those that prefer their evil deeds.

I believe the elect are the firstfruits; the disciples that are abiding in Him to be received to the Marriage Supper as vessels unto honor in His House, but those that are His, but did not depart from iniquity by faith in Him as their Good Shepherd in running that race, will be left behind to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation.

So Limited Atonement being assigned only to the elect is not true since those left behind that are not the elect, still have that atonement as their works of iniquity on that foundation will be burned up, but that foundation as in that atonement remains.

The way Calvin goes about explaining this can be seen as overdone. God the Father reveals His Son to those that seek Him. enabling them to believe, and thus giving them to His Son to keep as saved, regardless of how they build on that foundation; they will be raised in the last day, but every man in his order; Christ the firstfruits and then they that be Christ's at His coming.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus will finish His work even in those saints left behind for not looking to Him as their Good Shepherd for help in discerning & departing from iniquity as their works that deny Him on that foundation will be burned up.

The idea that no matter what you do, you are saved, is overlooking the warning that it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of a living God. Stripes will be coming, and those living that get left behind, will face the fire coming on the earth that will burn up one third of the earth ( the entire western hemisphere ), serving as a catalyst for the subsequent great tribulation, creating the new world order, and setting up the mark of the beast system to buy & sell after pooling resources in order for the world to survive after that calamity... which the heat will still be unbearable during that time on the rest of the world.

 

Since Jesus is with me always, and He is My Friend helping me and keeping me as His friend in following Him, He would be the only One I have with me in these discussions that I am "bringing".

 

Calvin believed in and supported the death penalty for hereticks.

http://reformedanswers.org/answer.asp/file/39726

"Calvin believed that it was just and right for heretics to be put to death. In this regard, he was not different from Servetus who also believed that heretics, specifically the heretic John Calvin, should be put to death by the Genevese Council."

And yet, Calvin and the majority christians have forgotten that God did not give any one the commandment to execute a heretick or any one caught in a sexual sin.

John 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

Paul instructed the church to excommunicate an unrepentant brother caught in fornication; the kind where he had his father's wife; adultery even. 1 Corinthians 5 th chapter at this link below.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+5&version=KJV

Paul taught the commandment to withdraw from those wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith that no longer follow after the traditions taught of us, but to not treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as a brother still.

2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;...........14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

So does any one want to be identified as a Calvinist or an Arminian now?

1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Neither Calvin nor whatever any other guy's name is...., are perfect to be identified with because they were not always right.

If you & I are not always right, then who is? Jesus.

That is why we should prove everything by Him from the KJV, relying on His wisdom and discernment in applying the meat within for knowing good and evil in these latter days. If one has to hop around to other Bible versions in doubt of what the KJV says, then we will not get anywhere, because not all Bibles say the same thing, so stick to one.

Better yet, ask Jesus to prove which Bible is the one to stick to. As it is, I am sticking with the KJV. It is not a perfect Bible, but that Bible is keeping the truths in His words that do not run contrary to other scripture, and that is what I mean by keeping the meat in His words in the KJV whereas I have found all modern Bibles do not, but run contrary to other scripture in that modern Bible.

I wish I can go into that Baptist only section for Bible versions/Translations. I don't know why that has to be Baptist only.

Anyway.. point made.. best not to be known as a Calvinist since I am sure everybody agreeing with Calvin, even if in most points, will not agree with Calvin in life.

 

Thanks for the invite.

As for some of your questions; see post # 28 & post # 30

 

It is still true, but you are looking at it as if Jews had never been with God nor sought after Him nor understood Him.

It was in the time of Jesus that Paul was referring to the spiritual state of even those Jews that were not seeking after God in a personal knowing Him kind of way. Everything was just routine in Judaism as they were sitting in darkness as much as the rest of the world was.

Explain John 3:18-21 then.

It is still true, but it is still God knowing whom will receive Him from those that prefer their evil deeds rather than be reproved of them. Predestination can include foreknowledge of whom will receive the gospel from those that would tear and render the ones giving the Good News. God is the Alpha & Omega.

Thanks for sharing. Iron sharpens iron only by the scripture.

 

Yes... at the time when John the Baptist and Jesus had come, even the Jews were not seeking Him in a personal way of relating to Him any more. Jesus had found the Temple of God; His House of prayer; has been turned into a den of thieves. That was evident of how the people sat in darkness of just routine and everyday living before the Light had come.

Okay then; explain why God led the disciples away from Asia and from Bithynia, but purposefully to Macedonia? How can the disciples have a vision of the people in Macedonia asking them to help them before they even heard the gospel?

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

It is not about who is better, but God knowing whom would receive Him even before they heard the Gospel. You can't have predestination without foreknowledge, can you?

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Since all those that believe, needed His help in order to believe by revealing His Son to us, then those He foreknew that prefer their evil deeds, the Father will not reveal His Son to them, and that is why they do not even believe in His name. That is the condemnation that is in the world for why they do not even believe in His name because they prefer their evil deeds of unbelief.

Proverbs 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. 34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. 35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord. 36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.