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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Mar 29, 2016.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    https://www.wretchedradio.com/ten-reasons-to-not-ask-jesus-into-your-heart-0

    Here is a thought provoking article;

    1. It is not in the Bible. There is not a single verse that even hints we should say a prayer inviting Jesus into our hearts. Some use Rev. 3:20. To tell us that Jesus is standing at the door of our hearts begging to come in. “Behold, I stand at the door and knock.” There are two reasons that interpretation is wrong. The context tells us that the door Jesus is knocking on is the door of the church, not the human heart. Jesus is not knocking to enter someone’s heart but to have fellowship with His church.
Even if the context didn’t tell us this, we would be forcing a meaning into the text (eisegesis). How do we know it is our heart he is knocking at? Why not our car door? How do we know he isn’t knocking on our foot? To suggest that he is knocking on the door of our heart is superimposing a meaning on the text that simply does not exist. The Bible does not instruct us to ask Jesus into our heart. This alone should resolve the issue, nevertheless, here are nine more reasons.
    2. Asking Jesus into your heart is a saying that makes no sense. What does it mean to ask Jesus into your heart? If I say the right incantation will He somehow enter my heart? Is it literal? Does He reside in the upper or lower ventricle? Is this a metaphysical experience? Is it figurative? If it is, what exactly does it mean? While I am certain that most adults cannot articulate its meaning, I am certain that no child can explain it. Pastor Dennis Rokser reminds us that little children think literally and can easily be confused (or frightened) at the prospect of asking Jesus into their heart.
    3. In order to be saved, a man must repent (Acts 2:38). Asking Jesus into your heart leaves out the requirement of repentance.
    4. In order to be saved, a man must trust in Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31). Asking Jesus into your heart leaves out the requirement of faith.
    5. The person who wrongly believes they are saved will have a false sense of security. Millions of people who sincerely, but wrongly, asked Jesus into their hearts think they are saved but struggle to feel secure. They live in doubt and fear because they do not have the Holy Spirit giving them assurance of salvation.
    6. The person who asks Jesus into his heart will likely end up inoculated, bitter and backslidden. Because he did not get saved by reciting a formulaic prayer, he will grow disillusioned with Jesus, the Bible, church and fellow believers. His latter end will be worse than the first.
    7. It presents God as a beggar just hoping you will let Him into your busy life. This presentation of God robs Him of His sovereignty.
    8. The cause of Christ is ridiculed. Visit an atheist web-site and read the pagans who scoff, “How dare those Christians tell us how to live when they get divorced more than we do? Who are they to say homosexuals shouldn’t adopt kids when tens of thousands of orphans don’t get adopted by Christians?” Born again believers adopt kids and don’t get divorced. People who ask Jesus into their hearts do. Jesus gets mocked when false converts give Him a bad name.
    9. The cause of evangelism is hindered. While it is certainly easier to get church members by telling them to ask Jesus into their hearts, try pleading with someone to make today the day of their salvation. Get ready for a painful response. “Why should I become a Christian when I have seen so called Christians act worse than a pagan?” People who ask Jesus into their hearts give pagans an excuse for not repenting.
    10. Here is the scary one. People who ask Jesus into their hearts are not saved and they will perish on the Day of Judgment. How tragic that millions of people think they are right with God when they are not. How many people who will cry out, “Lord, Lord” on judgment day will be “Christians” who asked Jesus into their hearts?

     
    #1 Iconoclast, Mar 29, 2016
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  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Ten Reasons To Not Ask Jesus Into Your Heart

    Todd Friel

    The music weeps, the preacher pleads, “Give your heart to Jesus. You have a God shaped hole in your heart and only Jesus can fill it.” Dozens, hundreds or thousands of people who want to get their spiritual life on track make their way to the altar. They ask Jesus into their heart.

    Cut to three months later. Nobody has seen our new convert in church. The follow up committee calls him and encourages him to attend a Bible study, but to no avail. We label him a backslider and get ready for the next outreach event.

    Our beloved child lies in her snuggly warm bed and says, “Yes, Daddy. I want to ask Jesus into my heart.” You lead her in “the prayer” and hope that it sticks. You spend the next ten years questioning if she really, really meant it. Puberty hits and the answer reveals itself. She backslides. We spend the next ten years praying that she will come to her senses.

    Telling someone to ask Jesus into their hearts has a very typical result, backsliding. the Bible says that a person who is soundly saved puts his hand to the plow and does not look back because he is fit for service. In other words, a true convert cannot backslide. If a person backslides, he never slid forward in the first place. “If any man is in Christ, he is a new creation.” (II Cor.5) No backsliding there.

    Brace yourself for this one: with very few if any exceptions, anyone who asked Jesus into their hearts to be saved...is not. If you asked Jesus into your heart because you were told that is what you have to do to become a Christian, you were mis-informed.

    So, what must one do to be saved? Repent and trust. (Heb.6:1) The Bible makes it clear that all men must repent and place their trust in Jesus Christ. Every man does have a “God shaped hole in their hearts,” but that hole is not contentment, fulfillment and peace. Every man’s heart problem is righteousness. Instead of preaching that Jesus fulfills, we must preach that God judges and Jesus satisfies God’s judgment...if a man will repent and place his trust in Him.

    If you are reading this and you asked Jesus into your heart, chances are good you had a spiritual buzz for a while, but now you struggle to read your Bible, tithe, attend church and pray. Perhaps you were told you would have contentment, purpose and a better life if you just ask Jesus into your heart. I am sorry, that was a lie.
     
    #2 Iconoclast, Mar 29, 2016
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  3. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    I agree it's a bad habit to encourage people to "ask Jesus into their heart" but the 10 reasons are lame IMO.

    Of course the phrase is not to be taken literally.

    David had a heart after God - we want those who believe to have a heart after God too.

    The rest (e.g repentance) is an "unspoken" part of the package.

    Like I said, probably not a good idea to encourage use of the statment but it doesn't bother me a whole lot.

    Rob
     
    #3 Deacon, Mar 29, 2016
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  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree. Sometimes a thing will mean one thing to its practitioners and something else entirely to its observers.

    A recent example I encountered involved a co-worker who is CoC. He condemned applauding in church as glorifying the performance of men. In my church, people often applaud, but the notion that this is praising a performance or men is foreign to their motive (in essence, their applaud means "amen"). But my co-worker will never accept that meaning because as outsider (to that practice) his only experience is in the context of praising a performance.

    Many have never been in a congregation where " inviting Jesus into one's heart," was common practice. Others may have been in situations where it was taken "literally". They shouldn't be expected to accept it as "calling on the Lord" or some shorthand for "believe." I don't like the statement either, but understanding what is typically meant it also doesn't bother me much.

    Sent from my TARDIS
     
    #4 JonC, Mar 29, 2016
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  5. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Salvation = Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
    John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
    And of course Paul said we are to call upon Him, so we believe and call,
    Romans 10:11-13
    11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    And of course the moment we believe and call the Holy Spirit indwells. Romans 8:
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    So where in the Believer does the Holy Spirit dwell? Galatians 4:
    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
    7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

    Hmmm seems that Galatians states that "the Spirit of His Son is sent into" the HEARTS of BELIEVERS, wonder when that occurs?
     
    #5 revmwc, Mar 29, 2016
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  6. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
    2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
    Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
    Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    Acts 8:37, And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
    Salvation comes to all those who believe and call, and the Spirit of the Son is given to them in their Hearts by faith. Seems the bible does say so.
     
    #6 revmwc, Mar 29, 2016
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  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    In support of Icon's objection to using such an "invitation", however, is this:

    The Savior Is Waiting

    The Savior is waiting to enter your heart
    Why don't you let Him come in?
    There's nothing in this world to keep you apart
    What is your answer to Him?

    Chorus:
    Time after time
    He has waited before
    And now He is waiting again
    To see if you are willing
    To open the door
    Oh, how He wants to come in.

    If you'll take one step
    Toward the Savior, my friend,
    You'll find His arms open wide.
    Receive Him, and all of your darkness will end
    Within your heart He'll abide.
    .
    I believe Icon is exactly right that this type of thinking comes from a misapplication of Jesus' words to the church in Revelation.
     
    #7 JonC, Mar 29, 2016
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  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Exegete those passages please. You posted a bunch of verses and gave a question. You posted them, now exegete them.
     
    #8 SovereignGrace, Mar 29, 2016
  9. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Why do some believe and others not? What caused them to believe?

    Did the elderly who believe remember to turn up his hearing aid?
    Did those who believed have a keener perseption?
    Were their hearts not as hard...or better yet...pure?

    Surely there was something better in them that caused them to believe and others not, right? Riiiiiiiiiiight!!
     
    #9 SovereignGrace, Mar 29, 2016
  10. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    There is definantly a miss application of Revelation 3:20 yet other verses state it plainly Galatians 4:6 seeing that yet ye are sons delegates the God The Spirit of the Son Of Him into the Hearts of you crying Abba The Father.
    KJV=
    And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    God has given as I posted many verses that talk about by Faith Christ and the Spirit dwell in our hearts.
     
    #10 revmwc, Mar 29, 2016
  11. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Their fairly self explanatory.
     
    #11 revmwc, Mar 29, 2016
  12. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    But none of what you posted...NONE...supports someone asking God to come into their heart. That's unbiblical to the core. God sends the Spirit into the hearts of ppl. That is divine quickening at work. See John 1:13, Ephesians 2:2, John 3:3 & John 3:8. Also, look at Ezekiel 37 and John 11 how those who were dead were made alive outside any effort, choice, desire of their own.
     
    #12 SovereignGrace, Mar 29, 2016
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  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    No they're not. Break them down...exegete them. Give us your thoughts, please.
     
    #13 SovereignGrace, Mar 29, 2016
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  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    That occurs as a result of what God does.....not what the dead sinner is asked to do
     
    #14 Iconoclast, Mar 29, 2016
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  15. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    He posts a bunch of verses, gives his thoughts in ten words or less, and it's like 'ta da' or 'voila'...here it is!! Uhhhhh....noooo!!
     
    #15 SovereignGrace, Mar 29, 2016
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  16. HAMel

    HAMel Well-Known Member
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    ...I'll stick to the way that thief on the cross went.

    Course, Jesus told him that "...today ye shall be with me in Paradise" but since He didn't say the word, "Heaven" some will argue the guy really didn't make it. ...ho hum.
     
    #16 HAMel, Mar 29, 2016
  17. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    So Galatians 4:6 is your proof text of asking Jesus into our hearts? What is Galatians 4 addressing?

    Multiple choice hint:

    1) Soteriology.

    2) Sunday Breakfast fellowship with all you can eat pancakes.

    3) Christian conduct, Biblical instruction, admonishment, and sanctification. (i.e. not soteriology)
     
    #17 Internet Theologian, Mar 29, 2016
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  18. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    He's conflating Galatians 4:6 with asking Him into their(our) hearts. Ugh!! It say Because you are sons, God has sent His Spirit....nowhere does it say they asked Him into their hearts and He sent. That's eisegesis.
     
    #18 SovereignGrace, Mar 29, 2016
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  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    There is a difference, I believe, between the lost inviting Jesus to come into his heart to save them and God putting His Spirit in those who are saved. You can also look to Ezekiel 36. But while both the OP and Gal. 4:6 speak of the heart, only the OP is discussing a person inviting an eager but powerless to effect his will Savior into ones heart. For illustration read Ezekiel 36. Count the times that God says "I will." Then count the times God says "man will."
     
    #19 JonC, Mar 29, 2016
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  20. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Galatians 4:
    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
    7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

    Interlinear = 5. That the ones under law He should be out buying, that the place of a son we may be getting, 6. That yet are Sons out from puts the God the Spirit of the Son of Him into the Hearts of you saying Aba Father. 7. As besides not still you are slave but son if yet son and tenant of God through anointed.

    Christ came to His own people the Jews, He came to redeem them, who were under the Law. The sons of Israel who were not sons of God, He came to redeem. But guess what they chose to reject Him, He came for their salvation but since they rejected Him, as His Fathered knew then He turned to the Gentiles, just as it was planned by God the Father from before the foundation of the world, that we might be the adopted sons! By Faith we become God’s adopted children, Faith comes by hearing and Hearing by the word of God, the Faith we place in Jesus (the Anointed) who brings to us the indwelling Holy Spirit. The moment we believed on Christ we were indwelt by the Holy Spirit. He came into our Hearts at the twinkling of an eye that is a nanosecond. We cried out Abba, Father and became as we see in 1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

    As for Ezekiel 36: In the verses 16-18 of chapter 36 God promises Israel, Judah as a nation that they would be scattered among the heathen, so do we take that part as us, they were scattered because He poured out His fury on them? The Jews are still scattered today because He is defending His Holy Name. There is a time coming when God will sanctify His name, which was profaned among the heathen, it is still profaned today, so that day has yet to occur. The heathen will know that He is God and the Heathen will see the day when God is sanctified in the eyes of Israel. That is when the heart of Israel as a people will turn to Him, and they will because of Faith in Him then He will do all these things for them as seen in verse 26-7. They will receive the Spirit, in fact that time is the time of the Millennial Kingdom. All the things God promises them that He will accomplish will be accomplished for them as a nation, because of their Faith in Him and His promise of it happening in these verses. They will gain a new spirit, just as we gain a new Spirit and all the benefits we have because of Faith. He says when He has accomplished these things in them, they would dwell in the Land, what Land the Land promised to Abraham, Isaac and Israel. He further states that Israel will be saved, He will save them the same way Abraham was saved we are told Abraham believed God and it that is his Faith was counted unto Him for Righteousness. You see the benefits after Abraham placed His Faith in the promise then he had righteousness imputed unto Him, not before. Imputation of Righteousness certainly not Abraham's but Christ Righteousness became Abraham’s because he believed God’s promise. Just as we receive Christ Righteousness because of our Faith. All the benefits of Salvation come the moment we believe. At that very twinkling of an eye a nanosecond, when we believe and call on the Lord. We receive imputed righteousness, regeneration, the indwelling Spirit, Justification and all the benefits of salvation all because of Faith in Christ.
     
    #20 revmwc, Mar 29, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
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