About Hebrews' warning: Do not draw back to perdition

[TCassidy]

If it is predestined rather than a free choice you are a zombie.

So the bible is wrong?

Romans 8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 Whom he predestined, those he also called. Whom he called, those he also justified. Whom he justified, those he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5 having predestined us for adoption as children through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his desire,

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

 

[dad1]

So the bible is wrong?

Romans 8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 Whom he predestined, those he also called. Whom he called, those he also justified. Whom he justified, those he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5 having predestined us for adoption as children through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his desire,

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

According to His purpose...of salvation if we chose it...not zombie nonsense as you allude to.

 

[dad1]

I did not allude to any "zombie nonsense." The only one who has mentioned it is you. Have you considered getting professional help with your cognitive difficulties?

Men have real free will. Don't project your problems on others. Your interpretations are wrong.

 

[TCassidy]

Men have real free will.

Nobody has had "free will" since the fall of Adam. The lost man's will is in bondage to the law of sin and death. The saved man's will is bound to the law of new life in Christ. The lost man is slave to sin and the saved man is servant to Christ.

Don't project your problems on others.

If you don't want to hear the answer you shouldn't have asked the question.

Your interpretations are wrong.

It is not my interpretation. It is what the bible says. I just believe it. I suggest you give it a try.

 

[dad1]

Nobody has had "free will" since the fall of Adam.

Says you. Jesus says whosoever WILL let Him come.


https://www.openbible.info/topics/free_will

The lost man's will is in bondage to the law of sin and death.

Jesus sets us free.

The saved man's will is bound to the law of new life in Christ.

It should be but even Paul counted not himself to have attained.

If you don't want to hear the answer you shouldn't have asked the question.

If you had any answers we could see that. I see fogginess and pet doctrines.

It is not my interpretation. It is what the bible says. I just believe it. I suggest you give it a try.

False.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Says you. Jesus says whosoever WILL let Him come.

No one wills to come until God does a work of regeneration.

Jesus sets us free.

Wait, you said man is already free - in His will. Jesus said we are not free until He sets us free, and that includes all aspects of our human nature. John 8:31ff.

Wonder who is right, you or Jesus?

Don't.

And as usual you have no Scriptural answers, only derision of others and the biblical truth they offer you.

 

[TCassidy]

Says you. Jesus says whosoever WILL let Him come.

Yes he did. But that has nothing at all to do with the bondage of the will.

Jesus sets us free.

Yes, and if our will were not bound He would not have had to set us free.

It should be but even Paul counted not himself to have attained.

Over and over and over again Paul says of himself "the bond-servant of Jesus Christ."

If you had any answers we could see that. I see fogginess and pet doctrines.

I understand. Sometimes it is difficult to understand things we don't like.

False.

True.

 

[Internet Theologian]

All are based on Scripture. Your attempts to evil rate me to death are a joke. Ha.

You don't use Scripture and it is apparent you don't know the truth of the Gospel. You have a truncated version.

 

[dad1]

No one wills to come until God does a work of regeneration.

Prove it. Show us the regeneration of the thief on the cross? How does that work, God regenerates the dead man and fallen man and then later the guy gets eternal life?

Wait, you said man is already free - in His will. Jesus said we are not free until He sets us free, and that includes all aspects of our human nature. John 8:31ff.

Not free from sin but free of will to chose!

 

[dad1]

You don't use Scripture and it is apparent you don't know the truth of the Gospel. You have a truncated version.

I have a clue. You could too. Ask.

 

[dad1]

Yes he did. But that has nothing at all to do with the bondage of the will.

Of course not. You made that up! Show me in the bible where the eill in in bondage? You can't.

Yes, and if our will were not bound He would not have had to set us free.Over and over and over again

Absurd. He sets us free from sin not choices.

Paul says of himself "the bond-servant of Jesus Christ."I understand. Sometimes it is difficult to understand things we don't like. True.
View attachment 510

In no way does that mean Paul did not have the choice to accept Jesus or not when he got saved. Ridiculous canard.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Prove it. Show us the regeneration of the thief on the cross? How does that work, God regenerates the dead man and fallen man and then later the guy gets eternal life?

Of course God does it that way. Note Ephesians 2:1ff.

Apparently he came to his senses. Wonder who was the cause of that? Himself? We only believe by the same power that raised the Christ of God from the dead - Ephesians 2:19. The thief went from hatred of God, and ridicule of God to confession, knowledge of Christ and His sinfulness, and full repentance. Someone revealed that to this thief, note Matthew 11:25ff that Christ Sovereignly chooses these, then they come heavy laden to Him, and He gives them rest.

Not free from sin but free of will to chose! <sic>

None are free in any manner until the Son sets them free - John 8:36.

Again, wonder who is right, you or the Christ of God?

 

[TCassidy]

You made that up!

Uh, no, I didn't. I suggest your read Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther. It is a detailed discussion (with Erasmus arguing for "free will") of how the soul of a lost man is in bondage to the law of sin and death.

He sets us free from sin not choices.

Nobody has said lost people can't make choices. They do so every day. What "bondage of the will" means is that they can only make choices in the context of their spiritual state. The unsaved man cannot will himself into heaven apart from Christ.

Show me in the bible where the eill in in bondage?

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the bond-servant of sin. (John 8:34)

 

[dad1]

Of course God does it that way. Note Ephesians 2:1ff

I noted it. Unrelated to anything you are pushing.

Apparently he came to his senses. Wonder who was the cause of that? Himself?

We are a work in progress and though we fall we will not be utterly cast down or forsaken. Ever.

We only believe by the same power that raised the Christ of God from the dead - Ephesians 2:19. The thief went from hatred of God, and ridicule of God to confession, knowledge of Christ and His sinfulness, and full repentance.

Great, just as anyone can do by praying to get saved. So where is this 'regeneration' before?

Someone revealed that to this thief, note Matthew 11:25ff that Christ Sovereignly chooses these, then they come heavy laden to Him, and He gives them rest.

No. Jesus revealed it. Any other someone is in your head.

None are free in any manner until the Son sets them free - John 8:36.

Baloney. We are very very totally free to make our choice. We are not free from sin till we do.

Hint: Lose the pretension of being connected to the meaning of Scripture...so far it is a big gong for you.

 

[dad1]

Uh, no, I didn't.

Then show chapter and verse.

I suggest your read Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther.

No.

It is a detailed discussion (with Erasmus arguing for "free will") of how the soul of a lost man is in bondage to the law of sin and death.

Just post the point and Scriptural support.

Nobody has said lost people can't make choices.

Seems like some here are saying just that.

They do so every day. What "bondage of the will" means is that they can only make choices in the context of their spiritual state. The unsaved man cannot will himself into heaven apart from Christ.

Irrelevant and obvious. Anyone can ask and receive salvation! Jesus saves but we must come to Him. Chose Him.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the bond-servant of sin. (John 8:34)

Think you are without sin now? I dare you to claim it.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I noted it. Unrelated to anything you are pushing.


We are a work in progress and though we fall we will not be utterly cast down or forsaken. Ever.
Great, just as anyone can do by praying to get saved. So where is this 'regeneration' before?

No. Jesus revealed it. Any other someone is in your head.

Baloney. We are very very totally free to make our choice. We are not free from sin till we do.

Hint: Lose the pretension of being connected to the meaning of Scripture...so far it is a big gong for you.

You have no answers and simply dismiss Scripture. No man is saved by his choice.

 

[dad1]

You have no answers and simply dismiss Scripture. No man is saved by his choice.

All are saved with the choice to get saved that Jesus gave us. GONG!

 

[TCassidy]

Then show chapter and verse.

I did. What part of "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the bond-servant of sin. (John 8:34)" didn't you understand?

No.

Well, if you refuse to study to show yourself approved unto God I guess there is nothing I can do about it. 1 Corinthians 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Seems like some here are saying just that.

Please quote where anyone in this thread has said that. Thank you.

Think you are without sin now?

No. And I have never claimed to be. Why the dishonest straw man questions?

I dare you to claim it.

What are you, about 6? "I dare you." "No, I double dare you." "Uh uh, I double dog dare you."

Can you at least try to engage in discussion like an adult?

 

[dad1]

I did. What part of "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the bond-servant of sin. (John 8:34)" didn't you understand?

Yes, it was quite plain. That had nothing whatsoever to do with free choice which is what we use to get saved. Only after that are we set free from sin. You are out in left field.

Well, if you refuse to study to show yourself approved unto God I guess there is nothing I can do about it. 1 Corinthians 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
Please quote where anyone in this thread has said that. Thank you.

Just be clear you say you do have sin now? You ain't deep you just ain't clear.

What are you, about 6? "I dare you." "No, I double dare you." "Uh uh, I double dog dare you."

Whatever. Do it or face the music of being exposed.

Can you at least try to engage in discussion like an adult?

Maybe go ask for one to debate with me, this is tiring.

 

[TCassidy]

we must . . . Chose [SIC] Him.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.

John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

2 Thessalonians 2:13b God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.