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Featured Sovereign Grace as it should be!

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by TCassidy, May 2, 2016.

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  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    [Puts on his pedant hat.]

    Well, technically "Jihad" as used in Islam refers to the inner struggle of the man convinced Allah is right and his human nature which rebels against Allah and his laws. It is the spiritual struggle within oneself against sin. Rather like our struggle between the new and old man within us. :)

    [Removes pedant hat.] :D:D:D:D
     
    #61 TCassidy, May 4, 2016
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Is that more of less serious than being anti-confusion? :)
     
    #62 TCassidy, May 4, 2016
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Let’s just take your claims one at a time. I said that Scripture does not tell us if God first decreed to save man or to make man. You said that I’m not even close and have missed a lot of revelation in Scripture.

    Pretend you are a preacher or a bible teacher and defend that statement by providing the Scripture I missed which undeniably affirms infralapsarianism or supralapsarianism (back up your claim).


    I’ll eagerly await…biting my nails hoping it’s infra.
     
    #63 JonC, May 4, 2016
  4. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Since God decreed to save man before the foundation of the world do you think He got confused and said 'Wait, should I make man first, or decree to save man first'?
     
    #64 Internet Theologian, May 4, 2016
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It's more or less the same. I'm from the south and "ignorant" just sounds cooler. Plus I don't know if I can help the confusion, but maybe even confused people can learn that men who disagree are not necessarily without understanding. Maybe even confused people can learn to appreciate John Wesley.
     
    #65 JonC, May 4, 2016
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  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am not asking for your opinion. I am asking for the passage that proves which ever logical order you are trying to claim God has revealed as correct.
     
    #66 JonC, May 4, 2016
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Let's see. What comes first in timeless eternity?

    Decree #1

    or

    Decree #1

    :D:D:D:D:D
     
    #67 TCassidy, May 4, 2016
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  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Well, don't forget the 6th point of Calvinism! :D:D:D:D:D
     
    #68 TCassidy, May 4, 2016
  9. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    You were given a passage though not quoted. Read your signature, or at least apply your old sig to yourself. 'I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you'.

    It applies to you as well, but maybe that too is over your head.
     
    #69 Internet Theologian, May 4, 2016
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Hey! You're hijacking my objection from a different argument on "logical orders" and tossing it against me. :confused:

    Of the two theories, Internet Theologian has stated the Bible offers one as having been revealed and I just missed it. I have a feeling it may be Beza's way of thinking about election....but maybe it'll be mine. I'm just going to wait and see. Then again....he might have been just talking nonsense....sometimes DoGs just bark. Laugh
     
    #70 JonC, May 4, 2016
  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yeah, but Jon stole that from me. :D:D:D:D:D
     
    #71 TCassidy, May 4, 2016
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  12. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    I saw that. :p
     
    #72 Internet Theologian, May 4, 2016
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Here's a little suggestion. When someone asks you for a passage that you say exists, it is typically best to just give it instead offer your opinion or paraphrase of what you think it may mean. For example, if I were to give a passage that God came and lived among men, I would offer John 1:14. Not some vague mumbling, but the Word of God. Sometimes just the reference (book, chapter and verse) is enough to save one's credibility.
     
    #73 JonC, May 4, 2016
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Exactly. The Ordo Salutis is logical, not temporal. Therefore "supra" and "infra" are identical when viewed from the perspective of eternity. :)
     
    #74 TCassidy, May 4, 2016
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I got it off a t-shirt, but now that I know it was yours I like it better (kinda like jumping the fence to get an apple)
     
    #75 JonC, May 4, 2016
  16. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Yep, you've missed it and much more in your anti Sovereign Grace agenda. It must be maddening to be on such a perpetual and futile path. :)
     
    #76 Internet Theologian, May 4, 2016
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yet they are not identical theological understandings. There is a difference between God electing prior to the fall and electing out of fallen man (it is a difference in our understanding). But I'll just wait for IT's reference.
     
    #77 JonC, May 4, 2016
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    explain.jpg
     
    #78 TCassidy, May 4, 2016
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    How does two things happening at the exact same time not happen at the same time?
    :)
     
    #79 TCassidy, May 4, 2016
  20. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    I see more of the 'I don't understand it at all, but let me go ahead and try to explain it anyhow' going on more than the above of late. :)
     
    #80 Internet Theologian, May 4, 2016
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