Sovereign Grace as it should be!

[TCassidy]

[Puts on his pedant hat.]

Well, technically "Jihad" as used in Islam refers to the inner struggle of the man convinced Allah is right and his human nature which rebels against Allah and his laws. It is the spiritual struggle within oneself against sin. Rather like our struggle between the new and old man within us.

[Removes pedant hat.]

 

[TCassidy]

I am, however, anti-ignorance.

Is that more of less serious than being anti-confusion?

 

[JonC]

Really? I looked at the post you quoted of his and didn't see that mentioned.



Yes, you do this so often in your confusion and straw man arguments that it is the norm for you.



Wow, you even comment on your own replies before you send them? You beat me to it. You? You BIG WINNA! Congrats! Laugh Roflmao



Uh...what? Freudian slip, perhaps? Yup!



Dunno, but I'm waiting for your next posting to show me.

Let’s just take your claims one at a time. I said that Scripture does not tell us if God first decreed to save man or to make man. You said that I’m not even close and have missed a lot of revelation in Scripture.

Pretend you are a preacher or a bible teacher and defend that statement by providing the Scripture I missed which undeniably affirms infralapsarianism or supralapsarianism (back up your claim).


I’ll eagerly await…biting my nails hoping it’s infra.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Let’s just take your claims one at a time. I said that Scripture does not tell us if God first decreed to save man or to make man. You said that I’m not even close and have missed a lot of revelation in Scripture.

Pretend you are a preacher or a bible teacher and defend that statement by providing the Scripture I missed which undeniably affirms infralapsarianism or supralapsarianism (back up your claim).


I’ll eagerly await…biting my nails hoping it’s infra.

Since God decreed to save man before the foundation of the world do you think He got confused and said 'Wait, should I make man first, or decree to save man first'?

 

[JonC]

Is that more of less serious than being anti-confusion?

It's more or less the same. I'm from the south and "ignorant" just sounds cooler. Plus I don't know if I can help the confusion, but maybe even confused people can learn that men who disagree are not necessarily without understanding. Maybe even confused people can learn to appreciate John Wesley.

 

[JonC]

Since God decreed to save man before the foundation of the world do you think He got confused and said 'Wait, should I make man first, or decree to save man first'?

I am not asking for your opinion. I am asking for the passage that proves which ever logical order you are trying to claim God has revealed as correct.

 

[TCassidy]

Let's see. What comes first in timeless eternity?

Decree #1

or

Decree #1

 

[TCassidy]

So, far no one here has called for any Calvinist's death.

Well, don't forget the 6th point of Calvinism!

 

[Internet Theologian]

I am not asking for your opinion. I am asking for the passage that proves which ever logical order you are trying to claim God has revealed as correct.

You were given a passage though not quoted. Read your signature, or at least apply your old sig to yourself. 'I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you'.

It applies to you as well, but maybe that too is over your head.

 

[JonC]

Let's see. What comes first in timeless eternity?

Decree #1

or

Decree #1

Hey! You're hijacking my objection from a different argument on "logical orders" and tossing it against me.

Of the two theories, Internet Theologian has stated the Bible offers one as having been revealed and I just missed it. I have a feeling it may be Beza's way of thinking about election....but maybe it'll be mine. I'm just going to wait and see. Then again....he might have been just talking nonsense....sometimes DoGs just bark. Laugh

 

[TCassidy]

'I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you'.

Yeah, but Jon stole that from me.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Yeah, but Jon stole that from me.

I saw that.

 

[JonC]

You were given a passage though not quoted. Read your signature, it applies to you as well, but maybe that too is over your head.

Here's a little suggestion. When someone asks you for a passage that you say exists, it is typically best to just give it instead offer your opinion or paraphrase of what you think it may mean. For example, if I were to give a passage that God came and lived among men, I would offer John 1:14. Not some vague mumbling, but the Word of God. Sometimes just the reference (book, chapter and verse) is enough to save one's credibility.

 

[TCassidy]

Hey! You're hijacking my objection from a different argument on "logical orders" and tossing it against me.

Exactly. The Ordo Salutis is logical, not temporal. Therefore "supra" and "infra" are identical when viewed from the perspective of eternity.

 

[JonC]

Yeah, but Jon stole that from me.

I got it off a t-shirt, but now that I know it was yours I like it better (kinda like jumping the fence to get an apple)

 

[Internet Theologian]

Hey! You're hijacking my objection from a different argument on "logical orders" and tossing it against me.

Of the two theories, Internet Theologian has stated the Bible offers one as having been revealed and I just missed it. I have a feeling it may be Beza's way of thinking about election....but maybe it'll be mine. I'm just going to wait and see. Then again....he might have been just talking nonsense....sometimes DoGs just bark. Laugh

Yep, you've missed it and much more in your anti Sovereign Grace agenda. It must be maddening to be on such a perpetual and futile path.

 

[JonC]

Exactly. The Ordo Salutis is logical, not temporal. Therefore "supra" and "infra" are identical when viewed from the perspective of eternity.

Yet they are not identical theological understandings. There is a difference between God electing prior to the fall and electing out of fallen man (it is a difference in our understanding). But I'll just wait for IT's reference.

 

[TCassidy]

I got it off a t-shirt, but now that I know it was yours I like it better (kinda like jumping the fence to get an apple)

 

[TCassidy]

Yet they are not identical theological understandings.

How does two things happening at the exact same time not happen at the same time?

 

[Internet Theologian]

View attachment 560

I see more of the 'I don't understand it at all, but let me go ahead and try to explain it anyhow' going on more than the above of late.