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Featured Mary, Salvation, and Sin Offering

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Adonia, May 20, 2016.

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  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    The RCC is off the deep end on their theology and practices.

    --Proclaim a sinless Mary who carried Jesus while being sinless
    --Eat a wafer and drink wine, blindly thinking it is literally Christ
    --Go to a 'father'and confesx their sins to him
    --Pray to Jesus via Mary
    --Have killed millions to propagate their beliefs
    --Worship the Pope and treat him as their head of their church

    These things do not bother you?!?!?
     
  2. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    If they were all correct, yes they would bother me.

    1. Yes, the proclamation that Mary was sinless is correct. We are not the only Christian faith tradition that believe such a thing.

    2. Not blindly, but knowingly as per the Scriptures and what the orthodox Christian Church has taught for the last 2000 years.

    3. Yes, the Church AND the Scriptures teach that we Christians should pray for each other. All Christians remain alive in Christ even those that are now asleep. If I ask you to pray for me, you would in essence be "interceding" between me and Christ and this is right in the Scriptures.

    4. Yes, there have been evil people in the Catholic Church as there has been in the non-orthodox church's - they also have killed millions of people throughout the centuries.

    5. We simply do not worship our Bishop (the Pope). He is our pastor and is due our respect.
     
  3. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Except a sinless person doesn't need a Savior. If she were sinless then SHE could have died for the sins of the world and Jesus wouldn't have had to come to live a life as a man to die for mankind.
     
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  4. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    They are correct and yet millions, probably billions are being deceived straight into hell by their evil teachings.


    Where is this stated in the bible Mary was sinless? You have not one scintilla of biblical proof to prove this.

    This is a gross misapplication of John 6 where Jesus said except you eat of His flesh and drink of His blood...Now, as Brother Protestant previously stated, in the OT, t was prophesied that not one bone of Jesus' body would be broken. Yet, whilst partaking of His 'body', you guys break it. Therefore, you are desecrating His body in that manner.

    Praying for each other is not what I was referring to. I meant that you guys go and confess to your 'father'(another clear gross error as only God is Father) and then he then goes and prays for you, too. You guys have the 'father' acting as a 'christ', as a mediator.

    I agree that non-RCC have killed many. But, the RCC en toto have killed more than probably any war has throughout the history of time.

    [Edited]

    Plus, look at all the pedophilia that has taken place throughout time. It not just a localized event, but permeates throughout the whole RCC worldwide.

    [Edited]
     
  5. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Gabriel told Mary, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God."[Luke 1:30] Now, the word 'favor' means 'grace', which she would not have received from God if she was sinless.

    Then we can read "When Joseph and Mary had done everything required by the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee to their own town of Nazareth."[Luke 2:39] Now, what did the Law require? For the women after childbirth to present an offering for sin sacrifice, which is found in Leviticus 12.

    Mary, the mother of Christ, was not sinless.
     
  6. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    YOU need to come out of the whore, i.e. the place where you worship and get nothing but error filled scriptural teaching. Have a nice day and God bless!
     
  7. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Huh?

    Lemme see...

    --Advocates transubstantiation where the wafer literally becomes Jesus' body and then goes against the prophecy that not one bone of His body would be broken
    --Whatever city the Pope comes to, he gets hordes of ppl thronging him like he's a rock star
    --Believe Mary was sinless
    --Believe in purgatory where ppl upon death, are in 'limbo' on their eternal destiny
    --Pray to their 'father' who then confesses their sins to God
    --Their local leader goes by the appellation 'father' which violates Matthew 23:9
    --Has killed millions upon millions to advocate their ideologies
    --Kept the bible from their minions so that no one could read it for themselves
    --RCC had the Spanish, Roman, Episcopal(Medieval), Papal, and Portuguese inquisitions that slaughtered everyone they deemed as heretics
    --Has had rampant pedophilia throughout the whole organization. Not just local, but worldwide

    Please flee this whore.
     
  8. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    Mary didn't exactly call herself a sinner. Her exact words were: "My spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior." Mary was indeed saved, only her salvation occurred before she was conceived. That it why we call it the Immaculate Conception. If Mary were a sinner, there is no way the angel could have addressed her as "full of grace."
     
  9. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Then Stephen was not a sinner either. Acts 6:8 "And Stephen, full of grace and power, was doing great wonders and signs among the people."
     
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  10. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    Let's see, the Book of Acts came after Christ's death and resurrection. Yes, Stephen could have been full of grace at that time, as well as anyone else who believed in Jesus Christ.
     
  11. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    So Mary was just as us after salvation? We are ALL full of grace and thus not sinners?
     
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  12. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    No, Mary was "full of grace" before Jesus's birth by God's own hand as He exempted the person who was going to bear the Incarnate Word onto the earth from original sin and she never became "just as us" after salvation. Why is this so hard for you to understand this? Now, after Jesus came and died for us, yes, each believer can be in a state of grace or full of grace as long as one does not do any sinful things. Should one sin there is a remedy for that - it's called repentance.
     
  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    That sounds good and all, but it is devoid of any verifiable bible support. In Matthew 1 we read This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit. Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.” All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”). When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.[Matthew 1:18-25] There is not one shred of evidence Mary, the mother of Jesus, was sinless. She was a virgin and she and Joseph never had intercourse until after He was born. But that does not mean she was sinless.

    Then in Luke 2, we can read When Joseph and Mary had done everything required by the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee to their own town of Nazareth[Luke 2:39] which goes back to Leviticus 12 and ‘A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period.'[Leviticus 12:2] And then we can also read in that same chapter Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over. If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding.[Leviticus 12:4-5] And furthermore we can read “‘When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over, she is to bring to the priest at the entrance to the tent of meeting a year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a dove for a sin offering. He shall offer them before the Lord to make atonement for her, and then she will be ceremonially clean from her flow of blood. “‘These are the regulations for the woman who gives birth to a boy or a girl. But if she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for her, and she will be clean.”[Leviticus 12:6-8] Mary, at the time of Jesus' birth, was still under the Law, and she had to do this as well as all other women who were under the Law.





    Because it is unfounded in the record of God.

    And what do ppl repent of? Sin. You are saying Mary was sinless, which makes her equal with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit. That is pure blasphemy. Then you double down this blasphemy by saying ppl can live in a full state of grace...I.E...live sinless lives.

    o_O :mad: :confused: :eek: :eek:
     
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Then I guess Noah was the same as Mary, too, seeing he found grace in God's sight?
     
  15. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    What's the matter, aren't you a believer in the Once Saved, Always Saved concept? That would mean that people are always in a "state of grace", or in other words "full of grace", no? I have heard it said that once a person is "saved" they cannot sin and if they do sin, that means they were not saved. Which is it? That type of thinking can be very confusing at times.

    And let's not talk of blaspheming, shall we? I can think of a few of your biblical viewpoints that could arise to such a sin.
     
  16. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Yes.

    No.

    When we sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Christ Jesus our Lord. There may be some of the OSAS that hold to that view as you mentioned, but not the vast majority. What is meant by OSAS or Eternal Security is that when we sin, Christ pleads our case for us, as He is our Advocate before the Father. We also repent when we sin. In 1 John 3, John explicitly wrote No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: [1 John 3:9-10] Those who continue to sin, not those who sin and repent...but those who continue sinning without repenting, show they have not been born of God.


    [Edited; JonC]
     
    #36 SovereignGrace, May 23, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2016
  17. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Adonia, please do not take my brusqueness as me being mean to you. If I did not love you, I would leave you alone. But being a preacher of God's word, it's my bounden duty to proclaim Christ to you. Christ is not found in a wafer and wine, no more than He was found in Dagon, Moloch, or any other OT idol. We do not confess to another man our sins so that he can then plead them to God on our behalf. We do not call others by the appellation 'father', either.

    Look at all the RCC teaches for instances...

    --Mary was sinless, making her on the same level of the triune God...blasphemous
    --The RCC prays to Jesus through Mary, making them idolators
    --The RCC confess their sins to the 'father', who then acts as their intercessor before the Father...idolatrous
    --Believe a wafer and wine are on the same level of Jesus...idolatrous
    --Desecrates that 'body' by breaking it, when scripture foretold not one bone would be broken..contradicts biblical prophecy
     
  18. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    Your understanding of the One Universal (Catholic) Christian Church is pretty poor and wrong according to the Scriptures. How many times does Jesus say "This is my Body" and "This is my Blood" in the Holy Writ"? Plenty I tell you and since Jesus cannot lie, it is the truth! Just as when Jesus was crucified only once and his bones WERE NEVER BROKEN, it is the same when at Mass his time at Calvary is re-presented, he is not crucified again, nor are any one of his bones broken either. So as you can see, we are scripturally correct once again.

    As for his "Real Presence" in the Holy Eucharist, this is what was believed by the Apostles and all of Christendom of the newly emerging Christian Church in the early centuries. Our Eastern Orthodox brothers never abandonded this truth in the 11th century during the first great schism of Christianity, and even the head "reformer" in the 15th century, one Martin Luther never stopped believing this either. You are the one who has gone off the deep end on this issue and that is the whole unvarnished truth!

    As for calling other men father, Jesus meant that we should never look upon another man as our Father in heaven. Who is the man who imprenated your mother? Why he is your father of course! In1 Cor. 4:14-15 St. Paul writes: "I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel". In Romans 4:16 it says ."
    Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all". So as we can see by those Scriptural references, there is no prohibition on us using the term "Father" in relation to our spiritual leaders.

    As for confession to a priest, this is also very Scriptural. In John 20 it is written: 21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” Of course you reject this because your reject the Apostolic Succession, but we don't because we listen to what the Scriptures actually say and then act accordingly.

    Concerning pedophilia in the Catholic Church, don't worry it exists in your church too. Why just today there is a story of a couple of pastors from Tennesee who have been charged with this crime and there are always stories after stories in the media of your brethren committing such reprehensible acts. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone I always say.

    Now saying Mary was sinless is not a blasphemous act either because of the reasons I have posted before. That is nothing but a flase charge because you are so wrong on eaverthing else, your credibility on biblical matters is near zero in my estimation.

    It's time you leave that error filled form of Christianity you now follow and come to worship at the Holy Church Jesus set up on this earth. Jesus is with us, especially in the Holy Eucharist, and He awaits your coming home to Him.
     
    #38 Adonia, May 23, 2016
    Last edited: May 23, 2016
  19. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Oh I understand it. Grew up in the Catholic church and attended Catholic school. I just know that this is not of God, it is not at all in His Word and it is false teaching. The Bible tells us that ALL have sinned. Not ALL but Mary. I trust the Holy Scriptures - not a teaching a church made up a thousand years after Jesus walked this earth.
     
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  20. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    A thousand years after Jesus walked this earth? Funny, but the historical record I know about disputes your claim. So come on, I'd like to see your proof of this.
     
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