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Hi Deacon, for reasons I do not understand, when you put something in quotation brackets the text fades out after a few lines. Could you edit post #19, and put the info in " marks? Thanks Van

 

Thanks guys, I double clicked and voila I was able to read the whole thing.

It answers the question, why we are chosen, rather than we received a portion, with "its seems better." OK got it.

As for me, it seems better to stick with the mainstream view.

 

Regarding Robert G. Bratcher and his theology, please see here:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/tev.html

 

Is anyone aware of other "questionable" translation choices. I am certainly aware on many very good choices.

 

Hi Deacon, I was referred to Hoehner ( See H. W. Hoehner,Ephesians, 226-27, for discussion on this interpretive issue.) but was unable to find his commentary at pages 226-7. I understand at least some versions of Logos have it. If you can copy and past the relevant part of his commentary, it would be great.

 

Editors
W. Hall Harris III
Elliot Ritzema
Rick Brannan
Douglas Mangum
John Dunham
Jeffrey A. Reimer
Micah Wierenga

Translators
W. Hall Harris III
Michael S. Heiser
Jeremy Penner
David M. Fouts
Eugene E. Carpenter
Gordon H. Johnston
H. Daniel Zacharias
William D. Barrick
Michael A. Grisanti
Chip McDaniel
Israel Loken
Ken M. Penner
Dorian G. Coover-Cox
Amy L. Balogh

 

In Christ also our lot was cast, being designated beforehand, put forth according to the One operating all according to the counsel of His will. What exactly is our lot in Christ. Romans 9 outlines our inheritance: our adoption (the resurrection of our bodies) as children of God, our worship and praise of God, and the promises accorded us as vessels of mercy, which had been designated beforehand for the believing children of Israel. Verses 11 and 12 apply "our lot" to the believing Jews, and verses 13 and 14 apply it to believing Gentiles.

 

Matthew 23:13,
—because you shut the kingdom of heaven before people! For you do not enter, nor permit those wanting to go in [a] to enter.
Footnotes: [a] Here the present tense has been translated as voluntative (“wanting to go in)

Thus, the text was changed from "who are entering" to wanting to enter. G1525, "eiserchomenous" does not seem to be translated as "wanting" anywhere else. Thus this appears to be a doctrine driven mistranslation.

Perhaps someone with access to Logos can shed light on this anomaly.

 

Matthew 23:13b (LEB) For you do not enter, nor permit those wanting to go in* to enter.

* Here the present tense has been translated as voluntative (“wanting to go in”)​

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Matthew 23:13b (NA28) ὑμεῖς γὰρ οὐκ εἰσέρχεσθε οὐδὲ τοὺς εἰσερχομένους ἀφίετε εἰσελθεῖν.
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εἰσερχομένους VPUP-PAM (verb, present either middle or passive, participle, plural, accusative, masculine)
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voluntative present.n. A present-tense verb specifying the will of the subject of the verb but that has not yet come to realization. Also called conative or tendential present. See John 10:32; Acts 26:28; Galatians 5:4.

DeMoss, Matthew S. 2001. Pocket Dictionary for the Study of New Testament Greek. Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.​

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Lexicon

εἰσέρχομαι fut. εἰσελεύσομαι

①to move into a space,enter
②to enter into an event or state, of pers.: come intosometh. = share in someth., come to enjoy someth.
③to happen, with focus on initial aspect,happen, develop, of thoughts:

Arndt, William, Frederick W. Danker & Walter Bauer. 2000. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.​

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Commentary
The hypocrisy of the Pharisees is to be condemned because of its two terrible effects: (1) you neither enter yourselves, (2) nor allow those who would enter to go in. It may be appropriate to introduce a new sentence at this place: “As a result, you yourselves do not enter into God’s Kingdom, and you keep others from entering, even though they want to.” Or “… you block the way for yourselves and for all others who want to enter.”

Newman, Barclay Moon & Philip C. Stine. 1992. A Handbook on the Gospel of Matthew. (UBS Handbook Series). New York: United Bible Societies.​

They themselves (emphatic ὑμεῖς) are not going in, which already means “woe” for them; nor are they letting those go in who, if they were not hindered thus, would go in. R. 892 makes the present participle εἰσερχομένους inchoative: “on the point of going in”; but it may be futuristic (R. 891) like the present indicative that indicates expected action: “I am going to town,” i.e., I expect to go soon. To bar others out of the kingdom is truly the devil’s work.

Lenski, R. C. H. 1961. The Interpretation of St. Matthew’s Gospel. Minneapolis, MN: Augsburg Publishing House.​

The critical attitude of the scribes and Pharisees to Jesus’ ministry is summarised in a double way: ‘you do not go in yourselves’; and ‘you do not allow those who are on their way in (τοὺς εἰσερχομένους) to go in (εἰσελθεῖν)’.

Nolland John. 2005. The Gospel of Matthew: a commentary on the Greek text, 933. (New International Greek Testament Commentary). Grand Rapids, MI; Carlisle: W.B. Eerdmans; Paternoster Press.​

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Versions / Cross Reference

Matthew 23:13b
(LEB) For you do not enter, nor permit those wanting to go in to enter.
(NIV) You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
(ESV) For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.
(NLT) You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.
(AV 1873) for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
(NKJV) for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

Luke 11:52b
(LEB) You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering!
(NIV) You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.
(ESV) You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering.
(NLT) You don’t enter the Kingdom yourselves, and you prevent others from entering.
(AV 1873) ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
(NKJV) You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.
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Comment
Kudos to the LEB for clarifying the translation with a footnote.

Rob

 

Thanks for the informative posts. Naturally I remain unconvinced. I note that the very same word is rendered entering in Luke 11:52. I do not understand why the LEB translators construed the " voluntative present, in Matthew but not in Luke. And finally I note that none of the three examples were of G1525.
I am sticking with this (Matthew 23:13) is a mistranslation in the LEB.

 

Anyone aware of other questionable translation choices in the LEB?

 

Well, I don't consider the following questionable translation choices. But you have clearly disagreed with the renderings in:
Is. 12:3
Mark 1:41
Ro. 3:25
1 Cor. 14:29
1 Cor. 16:13
2 Thess. 3:6
Phil. 1:6
Ja. 2:5
1 Pe. 4:6

 

The reference to 1 Peter 4:6 doesn't apply. But basically your reasoning was only "It should read..." I had repeatedly asked you for corroborative information from expository sources, Bible commentaries etc., but you never supplied anything along those lines. You merely asserted your own opinion and put it on a level far above your paygrade.

 

SBL vs NA27/UBS4 [LINK]