Featured What is the Baptism With the Holy Ghost?

Okay, another simple question that demands a not so simple answer. Please refrain from responding to the Poll with "None of the above" unless you include a poll addition with it (something you feel you could choose if it were on the Poll).

God bless.

 

Well, I guess this proves I am right: no-one in "Other Denominations" has any idea what the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is.




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Didn't know you had replied to this because you did not quote me, which gives me an alert so I can respond.

So you believe water baptism is the "gateway to life in the Spirit," do I have that correct?

Have to get going, so will check back in at a later time.

Don't be lazy...quote.


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And I welcome all Catholics to also join in on this.

Very surprised no Charismatics have stepped up. This is usually a hot topic for them.


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Okay, so you are saying the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is an empowering, do I have that right? You are not alone in this, many, if not most, whether Protestant, Reformed, Catholic, or Charismatic take this same view.

And I am pressed for time this morning so I will have to come back to this, but, I appreciate you participating.

So what you are saying, if I understand you correctly, is that one can be saved but not have received the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, right?

Now, I would ask you to present the Scriptural basis for this. Please present the Scriptures that affirm your position/s, and I will present my own which I believe affirms my own position that the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is salvation itself in the New Covenant standard which began at Pentecost.

Before I do, though, I will ask you this: if the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, which did not take place until after the Promised Spirit came (Acts 1:4-5), is an empowering to heal, then how is it that the Disciples performed this function (as well as cast out demons) prior to their being Baptized with the Holy Ghost?

Acts 1:4-5 makes it clear that they were not yet Baptized with the Holy Ghost, so how would you reconcile this as an empowerment?

Again, thanks for the participation.And by the way, we are in agreement with demon possession being treated with meds due to unbelief.


God bless.

 

I am a Baptist and I distinguish between Believer's Baptism and the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, as do many Baptists in Fundamental circles.

Let's not turn this into a debate about Charismatic Distinctives (though the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is a Distinctive of Charismatics, lol), our focus is specific to the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, rather than the Gifts. Let's focus on, as it has been offered, the Distinctive (singular) of Charismatic doctrine concerning the Baptism with the Holy Ghost. I have been surprised at the similarity of their view to many Baptists I have discussed this with. Several Baptists, as well as some Reformed and Protestant believers, have affirmed their view that the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is an empowering. One well known Partial Preterist I talked to also gave this definition.

So what is your understanding of this Baptism?

We simply cannot say that dogmatically. There is nothing that needs to be accomplished for the Rapture to take place.

Again, our focus is on the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, so let's first concentrate on that, and while I don't have a problem with side issues being discussed, we likely have only about 9 pages before Moderation shuts the thread down, so let's stick with the topic.

If you would like to discuss the Rapture and the various positions (Pre, Mid, Post), I'd be happy to discuss it with you. Start a thread and I will participate. If you feel the Rapture will not occur soon because you are Post-Tribulation in your views, that is a great discussion which covers quite a bit of ground. I have noticed there isn't much discussion on that anymore, so again, I'd be glad to discuss it with you in an appropriate thread.

Thanks for participating in this one, and I would be curious to know your position on the Baptism with the Holy Ghost.


God bless.

 

Where'd you go, Utilyan? We agree in part concerning this Baptism, but, I fully reject Baptismal Regeneration, so you having brought that to the table gives us the opportunity to examine it.


God bless.

 

I agree, so the questions I pose to you are...

1. Was the Baptism with the Holy Ghost taking place prior to Pentecost?

2. Does one become a Christian by being water baptized?

3. Who is the Baptizer?

4. What is one baptized into?


And have to run, so again, thanks for participating. This is a great discussion, and will cause us to think about some things we may not have given attention to before.

From you second statement I take it you are A-Millennial? Either way, not really relevant to the topic.


God bless.

 

Why would we consider them to "believe on Jesus" when they have not heard of the Spirit Jesus preached, Who was sent on Pentecost, and not before that?

They had not even heard of this Spirit.

Secondly, the disciples heard of the Spirit, as Christ states in Acts 1:4, both by the Father as promised as well as from Christ Himself.

Now what Spirit did Christ teach them about, and why is He different than the Spirit empowering them as disciples of Christ to heal, preach, and cast out demons?

If the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is simply an empowering, then nothing new is seen in Christ sending the Comforter. But that is not what Scripture teaches, we see that when the Spirit is sent, many things that did not take place before began taking place.

Here is an example:


John 14:20-23

King James Version (KJV)


20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Now here is a simple question: had the Comforter, Christ, and the Father...made their abode already in the disciples?

Yes or no?

If yes...how?

If no..why?

Okay, so the one point I would focus on in your statement begs the question...was the Church in existence prior to Pentecost?

Secondly...what does it mean to be a member of the Church?

I call it psycho-babble, lol. It is a system of generating secular humanistic excuses with an underlying goal of undermining belief in the supernatural.

"It's not Johnny's fault...he had a poor upbringing, and didn't receive the attention he should have! We just need to get him on the right psych med and Johnny will be just fine."


God bless.

 

Smyth, this is not a thread to bash Charismatics or Pentecostals, and it is not a thread with a focus on the Gifts.

Let's stick with the focus...the Baptism with the Holy Ghost.


I agree that the disciples of John are saved in Acts 19, before only being baptized in association with John. How this is relevant is how being baptized in association correlates to the Baptism with the Holy Ghost. Many equate the two, I do not.

If they are at this time Baptized with the Holy Ghost, then they are at this time saved.

Consider:


Acts 11:13-18

King James Version (KJV)


13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


John the Baptist did not grant repentance unto life, but rather, publicly baptized men who professed repentance and this...within the framework of the Law, not the New Covenant.

Here, just as Christ did, and Paul does in Acts 19, salvation and life is correlated to these individuals being Baptized with the Holy Ghost.


God bless.