Featured The Pre-Tribulation Rapture

Its not a stupid argument, it is just the only reasonable conclusion one can make unless they want to say Isaac was born again before he was born.

So are you amillennial?

How exactly do you expect to discuss the timing of the Rapture is you are? Could you make a concise sttatement as to what view you take, please? Amil, Premil...what?

That's a good decision on your part, because you will not win that argument.




God bless.

 

In part, but the two problems you are faced with is that...

1. This is a discussion concerning the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, not the Tribulation;

2. The passages that I quoted are in fact related to the Tribulation, thus relevant to the discussion;

3. The passage you give as more relevant...has nothing to do with the Rapture itself.

And when Christ spoke to them...

...they were not Christians.

They were not trusting Christ for their salvation.

They did not even believe He arose from the Grave...after He arose:


Mark 16:9-14

King James Version (KJV)

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.

11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.

14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.


Now if you can tell me why you would think that those who are not trusting in Christ as their Savior, and have not received the Eternal Indwelling are Christians, then I will be happy to look at your doctrine.

So explain this.


Continued...

 

Spamming?

Shall I forego using the same Scripture because you think it is spamming? lol

Seems to me someone is looking to make friends.

If you want to show how the Scripture quoted does not support my view, perhaps you might actually return to the discussion. So far I have seen the typical reaction of someone that has his doctrine being undermined and they have no ability to defend their doctrine and address the points made.

100%.

And I have only begun in showing you, from Scripture...why this is the only reasonable view to take.

False arguments so soon?

Really?

Well, let me make this concise: God is omnipresent, how then shall He be "removed from the World?"

How about addressing what I have said, Smyth, and leave false arguments you think you can debate out of it.

You'll lose that discussion as well.


Continued...

 

I have never suggested this, lol.

Do you see how you created a false argument and then run with it?

You are like a couple other members that debate within their own arguments and forget to address what I actually say.

Is this how you arrive at doctrinal conclusion also?

I would agree, aren't you sorry you suggested it?

Totally agree with you here, Smyth.


Continued...

 

Well, I gave you Old Testament Prophecy that is relevant, and mentioned in the Olivet Discourse.

What does it say, Smyth. How is it relevant?

Totally agree.

And so far...what exactly have you said about the timing of the Rapture?

So far we have you talking about the Great White Throne which is not mentioned in the OP, and not speaking about what is mentioned...the Sheep and Goat Judgment, which is found in Matthew 25 and follows the Olivet Discourse.

Secondly, we see that for some reason you feel that Mark 13 is the place to go to gain an understanding of the Great Tribulation.

Third, that this must be referring to Christ's followers who are Christians.

Fourth...that Christians will go through the Great Tribulation.

So let me ask you...are you saying that there will be unbelievers who enter into the Kingdom of God? Into the Millennial Kingdom?

This conflicts with Christ's teaching because He states no man who is not born again will enter the Kingdom of God, and many of His teachings refer to that Kingdom which is clearly the Kingdom promised to Israel, which, if it is not fulfilled, has God reneging on His promise to Israel.

That is the Kingdom the disciples ask about here:


Acts 1:6

King James Version (KJV)

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?


So what I have presented so far is simply to get the discussion started. Do you want to discuss the timing of the Rapture...or not?


Continued...

 

When you can show disbelief on my part I will be glad to discuss it with you.

Until then, perhaps you might try showing why your view is correct, and mine wrong.

It matters a great deal.

We can set the timing of the end of the Tribulation to Daniel's Prophecy. Daniel makes it clear that the Antichrist "confirms a covenant for one week," and in the middle of that week...causes sacrifice and oblation to end. What that resents, Smyth, is not a picture of Christians worshiping God...but Temple Service.

Who is that related to?

What Covenant was relevant to Daniel's People?

Just basic information, Smyth, and all of it...

...relevant to the timing of the Rapture.

?

I can see how you confuse yourself by presenting a false argument and embracing it, but you will have to explain what you mean in regards to the Lord's instructions coming too late for "imagined converts within the Tribulation."


God bless.

 

Quote one verse I have quoted that does not have to do with the Rapture or the Tribulation.

Can you do that?

Just quote one.

I promise you, the response will be concise.

And it is true...Christians will go through the Tribulation, because everyone saved within the Tribulation will be Christians.

But...the Church will not go through the Tribulation.

And if you would actually discuss the issue...you would come to learn that.

No need to be vulgar.

Perhaps foul language is acceptable to you, but it has no place in a Christian Doctrinal Discussion and Debate Forum from someone claiming to represent Christ.

So at this point I would just ask for one verse I have presented that you do not see as relevant to the Rapture or the Tribulation.


God bless.

 

I did, and apparently that confused you.

Now where is the quote of the Verse that is not relevant to the Rapture or the Tribulation?

Have to get going, so if you are going to meet this challenge you can present it now, or I can get to it when I get back.


Continued...

 

Look, I know my posts were short, but it is pretty clear they are complete enough in themselves to help you understand.

What I have said has been clear enough.

The fact that you confuse the Great White Throne with the Sheep and Goat Judgment is not really my fault, Smyth.

I never commented on that at all.

You did.

What I said is that there will be no Christians entering into the Tribulation, and the only reasonable way that men will be saved is...

...the same way they are saved today: by the Ministry of the Comforter.

Look, if you want to debate the views other people have, start a thread and have at it. But you said you wanted to discuss the Rapture with me...

...so address the views I give, not arguments you think you can debate.

And just so you know, 2 Thessalonians does not teach that the Holy Spirit is taken out of the world, lol. It teaches that "He that restrains will be taken out of...

...the way."

Believe me, I can debate the tired arguments you think you have, that you would like to impose on me...better than you. Believe that.


Continued...

 

Christians do not save people, Smyth.

God does.

I will agree there are some that teach the Pre-Tribulation Rapture quite erroneously.

But at least they are on the right track.

Why would I do that?

That is not even relevant to anything I said.

What is likely is that you probably understood those antagonists as well as you are displaying your understanding of what I have said.

Go figure.

If could just get a reply that was relevant to the OP...that would be good enough.


God bless.

 

?

Do you really think that saying they are irrelevant makes this reality?

Quote a verse, Smyth.

The references to Daniel were meant to point out that there is a difference between the Great White Throne and the Sheep and Goat Judgment. This is in response to your confusion concerning the Great White Throne Judgment. GO back and read it again and perhaps you might see the relevance to the first false argument you supplied.


God bless.