Featured I JUST HAVE TO GO PRESBYTERIAN

Friend, it is totally foolish to go where your "heart" leads you. Your heart is not inspired, nor reliable. God's word is final in authority not your heart, not your circumstances and not your friends. Yes, only a Bible believing church is authorized by Christ to constitute a new church and all on here who tell you different are deceiving you. Every single congregation in the New Testament originated from members of bible believing churches. There is not one CLEAR example of any church originating by non-bible believing churches or Christians who are not discipled in the same gospel, same baptism and same faith and order as Christ - NONE.

Presbyterians do not constitute New Testament churches and cannot possibly do so for many reasons. There is no such thing in scripture as a church of unbaptized infants or believers - NONE! Their ordinance of baptism denies Christ, denies the gospel, and is no baptism at all.

The fact that true believers may exist in such institutions does not change God's command to "come out of her" my people (Rev. 18:4).

Everyone on this thread who has advised you to go ahead and take the leap into this act of scriptural disobedience will be held accountable for their counsel contrary to the clear teachings of God's Word.

Seek out a Bible believing church and visit it as oft as you can and make your circumstances known to them as a matter of prayer. If you want to act on faith, then don't act on blind faith, or vain faith, but act on faith in keeping with the clear revealed will of God in scriptures and MOVE to a location where you can worship in a true church and depend on God to take care of providing you a job.

There are many options available to you other than direct disobedience to the revealed will of God that may require faith.

 

You are dead wrong. Conservative Presbyterian churches are bible-believing churches. Just because they disagree with you, and maybe me, on some doctrines doesn't make them not bible-believing churches. They are not being disobedient, rather they are following what they believe is biblical, instead of following you.

 

ok, if you think you are right then show me anywhere in the New Testament where any true NT. Church was consitituted of unbaptized members? Where are the sprinkled and poured congregations in the New Testament? Where there is no scriptural baptism there can be no scriptural churches - period!Baptism is the prequisite for church constitution and membership (Mt. 28:19 before verse 20; Acts 2:41 "baptized" before "added").

Now there can be saved people where there is no baptism but there can be no such thing as a New Testament church.

 

Ironically, Baptists are the "guilty" party of having non-baptized members, young children. All members of Presbyterian churches are baptized. I know you don't count those baptisms as valid, but they do. Faith, not mode of water baptism, gets people to Heaven. They, in good faith, believe their baptisms to be valid.

I think wine is scriptural, but it's hard to find a Baptist church that uses wine for Communion. Are Baptist Communions invalid?

 

In what baptist congregations are children considered members? I have yet to see any 5 year olds casting their votes during business meetings.

 

Wow.... A lot to go through. First of all, Ann is correct. We believe - similar to Baptists - that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Baptism does not save. Instead, it is a sign of salvation, and is administered to both believers and their children -- hence the difference in our theology. As such, I have seen adults, children and infants baptized, and we believe that all modes of baptism - sprinkling, pouring and immersion - are valid. (Yes, we even have baptisms at the beach where there is immersion.)

Also, baptized infants are not members of the church. Our children (now in their 20's) personally accepted Christ in their Sunday School classes when they were young, thanks to some wonderful teachers. When they were older, they went through a new members class and were interviewed by elders regarding their faith before joining the church. That is the norm in a PCA church, and I would expect the OPC to be similar, if not the same.

Hope this helps explain things - even though I know we disagree. Blessings,

 

The only group I'm familiar with that practices foot washing is a cult (started by a now-dead man claiming to be Elijah, and has millions of of low-profile followers).

Foot-washing was a real thing of humility and service, back when people didn't have socks, and walked all day long, and didn't have showers. Now, it's an anachronistic sacrament for those who practice it.

I don't think this has any relevance to the topic. Neither Baptists nor Presbyterians practice foot-washing.

 

So you baptize them twice, first as infants and then again as adults? Do you sprinkle or pour the first time as infants and the immerse them as adults? Of course you realize this is unbiblical to administer water to infants at all for anything one might call baptism?

Where there is no scriptural baptism there is no congregation of Christ. Moreover, like faith and order is the Biblical preprequisite for authority to even administer baptism. Hence, no New Testament church would ever do what you describe and so what you might call a church is not a church and has no authority to administer any of the ordinance.

Here is some Biblical evidence to support what I just asserted. In Matthew 28:19-20 the command is to "make disciples" (verb in verse 19). A disciple is one who follows, who is like faith and order with Christ in the three areas identified in Matthew 28:19-20 (1) Same gospel; (2) Same baptism; (3) Same faith and order. Only those who are like faith and order with Christ are authorized administrator of baptism. Notice that baptism precedes "teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you." You can't teach what you have not been taught. Those being authorized have already been through this disicpleship process and so they are like faith and order with Christ in the same gospel, same baptism and same faith and order. These three things characterize true New Testament churches as this is the process for not only making disciples but for constituting churches as churches are composed of such scriptural baptized believers where like faith and order can be taught and observed.

Presbyterian, Lutheran, Assembly of God, Methodist, Episcopalian are simply man made institutions which have no authority to administer baptism and who are not like faith and order with Christ or the New Testament churches. True, they may contain saved people but so does the Great Whore (Rev.19:4) and she has no authority from Christ to administer the ordinances or constitute churches.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_washing <-wiki


Baptist do Kool-Aid and crackers for communion. So they probably just run a garden hose with a hose-gun in the church and just shoot your feet with water.

 

I have never seen a closed communion at a Presbyterian church. I know that our church, communion is open to all professing Christians. I did a quick search on the OPC, since I am not all that familiar with them - though I do have a friend who is an OPC pastor. There, I found that it requires one to be a member of a congregation - but not necessarily a Presbyterian congregation. Personally, I would discuss your concerns (which I fully understand) with the pastor and explain your situation. Blessings,

 

A Majority of Christians practice infant Baptism.


Romans 4
9Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 10How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.


1 Peter 3
21Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


Colossians 2

8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.


The Circumcision of Christ, A circumcision made without hands, is right there having been buried with him in baptism.


Luke 18
15And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. 16But Jesus called for them, saying, “Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17“Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.”



Luke 2:21
21And when eight days had passed, before His circumcision, His name was then called Jesus, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb.



Here we would have to argue Jesus sinning because He is being circumcised before age of reason.

What is the circumcision of Christ? Its Baptism.

No where in the bible does it state Baptism is restricted to adults at the age of reason. Yet I have shown in scripture BABIES are the very definition of the ENTITLEMENT to baptism. " for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these"


Acts 10
, 47“Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

Here is Peter ordering folks to be baptized who just got the holy spirit, that's still a few blocks back from JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF stating HEAVEN belongs to the children and they are the STANDARD by which to receive Heaven. Plenty of you got the holy spirit......This is JESUS in PERSON defending the children right to receive heaven. Is baptism greater then Heaven?

Lets say its You, Peter and Jesus. Peter says hey you have holy spirit go get baptized in the name of Jesus ain't that great?. Jesus Christ God almighty puts his hand on your shoulder and tells EVEN his own followers don't hinder him! The kingdom of God belongs to HIM!

You have be a few cans short of a pack to believe Our Children are alien to God till age of reason.
When Christ has practically said the opposite that we need to be more like them.

We are fighting to barely get in the kingdom, while the children OWN IT, it is theirs!

 

I am a Baptist through and through. I believe biblical baptism is on a credible profession of faith and the biblical mode is immersion. I believe my Presbyterian brethren are wrong on this critical ordinance. That said, to label them a "synagogue of Satan" (as one board member did) is so outrageous that it deserves a sharp rebuke.

I am thankful for the many faithful Presbyterian churches that preach the Gospel. They have done much to further godliness among Christians and to defend the faith from wolves. I gladly stand along side them for the cause of Christ. Of course, there are liberal Presbyterian churches and denominations that have forsaken the Gospel, as there are Baptist churches. But to insinuate that those that faithfully preach Christ are in league with Satan is appalling.


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