I JUST HAVE TO GO PRESBYTERIAN

[Earth Wind and Fire]

In your mind it may mean all that, and that's a good thing! But if you go at random into a 'Baptist' church in Britain (and I suspect it may be the same in America) you have absolutely no idea what you're going to get other than that it won't be a baby sprinkling. It may be charismatic, it may be word-faith, it may be liberal, fundamentalist or Reformed.

Steve.....I look daily for a straightforward Bible Believing Church every day (in my operating area) & like everything else it takes time for them to reveal themselves (their true character). The most dangerous ones are subtle, they don't come right out and reveal anti biblical behavior....indeed, some are actually proud of it & gloat over it. But if you study the Sermon on the Mount you should be prepared for them for they are "False Prophets." They are always there....always present, just waiting outside of the straight and narrow gate ready to pounce. That is their most favorite place to be. That is because they will persuade you not to enter in and not to walk on that path.... so there is always the danger of those subtle pretenders. My advice is to know your bibles (backwards & forwards)....that's the best discernment. That's the true Christians armor.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You are limiting God.[quote/]

You can move "by faith" trusting God to honor your obedience. You can drive at least once a month to what is a reasonably sound church and convey your need and ask them to pray that your need will be supplied. You seem capable to conduct Bible study with your own family until God answers that prayer. You can witness and ask God to bring to your home Bible study other like minded believers so that eventually your own resources may be sufficient to aid a sound church to help provide a missionary to further develop and constitute a church.

Update.....I have spoken to the Baptist pastor yesterday & that's pretty much the game plan. But I am also sitting among the false church in order to infiltrate them.

All of this requires some patience and perserverance in doing what is right depending on God to honor that obedience even though it comes with costs and sacrifices.

yes..... and what do you think i have been doing for 6 years. Mainly watching the community I love go to Hell---LITERALLY. But I am being as patient as I can be & as prayerful.

Where do you live exactly - what city and I will see if some of our churches are in the vicinity and would undertake a mission outreach .

Mark, really ..... first you are telling me to move out of the area (disregarding my love for the community where I have lived for 59 years & economic cost as well) ..... now your telling me you can find me a home church after I have looked high & low for 6 years?!? BTW so has my brother been looking for a sound church & he is an ex IFB Pastor!!!! That was a joke right? But if you are serious & you are Landmark its not necessary as Ive done the do diligence & they are farther away than the far away baptist church I'm speaking with (who will accept me coming in when the Reformed Catholics are in a "Baby Sprinkling" mood).

As a side note, and for your own entertainment look up the OPC definition of baptism........Wow, just wow

 

[The American Dream]

No cant say that I would. To make matters worse around West Kentucky, there is only PCUSA churches, a few notches below PCA. Hope things are going well in NJ if you are still there I am really glad Trump did not pick Krispy Kream Christie for VP. Maybe he will be Secretary of Transportation.

 

[The American Dream]

Sprinkling infants is a RCC pagan ceremony that has no Biblical foundation and is totally meaningless. The infant understands the Gospel as my parrot does, not at all. Covering the sins of the infant by the virtue of the Christian parents is another fairy tale. If the mainstream Protestant denominations were going to bother to have a Reformation, why did they feel obligated to carry on some of the RCC nonsense.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No cant say that I would. To make matters worse around West Kentucky, there is only PCUSA churches, a few notches below PCA. Hope things are going well in NJ if you are still there I am really glad Trump did not pick Krispy Kream Christie for VP. Maybe he will be Secretary of Transportation.

LOL.....my wife of 30 years & I were married in a PCUSA but that was long ago, when the pastors actually taught doctrine,but today forget about it!

Yea, El Gordo took off even more time from New Jersey to go to Italy on vacation (probably still hunting for the perfect pizza pie)

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I grew up in a PCA church, and there is no justification for going Presbyterian. The PCUSA is apostate for recognizing same sex marriages. The Cumberlands ordain women pastors All Presbyterians sprinkle infants, totally unscriptural and a pagan ritual of the RCC. They have hierarchies that are totally at odds with the NT churches in the Bible. They practice elder rule which has no Biblical foundation. They believe the Universal Church has some function on earth when God's work is carried out by the local church. They say creeds Sunday after Sunday which were written my man, and therefore flawed. They say them so often the words become meaningless and the creed turns into a chant. They waste money on presbyteries, synods and general assemblies which could go to missionaries and to help the poor. They believe at the Lords Supper the Lord as a spiritual presence, while the Bible says its symbolic, the key phrase being "do this in remembrance of Me." The hierarchy interferes with choosing pastor, choosing Sunday School material, forming the budget for local churches, and approving upgrades and repair of the church.

I know....know this, I won't join error

 

[utilyan]

Sprinkling infants is a RCC pagan ceremony that has no Biblical foundation and is totally meaningless. The infant understands the Gospel as my parrot does, not at all. Covering the sins of the infant by the virtue of the Christian parents is another fairy tale. If the mainstream Protestant denominations were going to bother to have a Reformation, why did they feel obligated to carry on some of the RCC nonsense.

Using rings to be married is a PAGAN CEREMONY that has no biblical foundation. So if you got a ring on your finger. Then its obvious you are a worshiper of Satan.



Protestants need to be protesting SOMETHING, Reformers need to be fixing something.
What saintly perfect lives were they living before they decided to fix anything?



Jesus Christ would say YOU don't understand the Gospel and need to be more like the infant.

Luke 18
15And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. 16But Jesus called for them, saying, “Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17“Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.”

" Covering the sins of the infant by the virtue of the Christian parents is another fairy tale."

1 Corinthians 7
14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

Its like your hitting every branch of error on the way down.

 

[Smyth]

Sprinkling infants is a RCC pagan ceremony that has no Biblical foundation and is totally meaningless. The infant understands the Gospel as my parrot does, not at all. Covering the sins of the infant by the virtue of the Christian parents is another fairy tale. If the mainstream Protestant denominations were going to bother to have a Reformation, why did they feel obligated to carry on some of the RCC nonsense.

The early Reformers were Catholics who wanted to reform the Catholic church, not start Protestant churches. Catholic doctrine was their doctrine, until persuaded otherwise, a process which could take years or even generations.

If a Catholic or Presbyterian sees, in good faith, Baptism as corresponding to Circumcision, then they sin not when they baptize infants. TAD, you error in thinking they're applying Believers Baptism to infants. They are not. And, really, how many children in Baptists churches making professions of faith aren't parroting, before their baptism?

You need to put sincere faith at the top of your list of what you want in a church. I don't think the Catholic Church is Christian, not because they sprinkle infants or pray to Mary, but because I don't see the church as governed by people of sincere faith.

 

[utilyan]

The early Reformers were Catholics who wanted to reform the Catholic church, not start Protestant churches. Catholic doctrine was their doctrine, until persuaded otherwise, a process which could take years or even generations.

If a Catholic or Presbyterian sees, in good faith, Baptism as corresponding to Circumcision, then they sin not when they baptize infants. TAD, you error in thinking they're applying Believers Baptism to infants. They are not. And, really, how many children in Baptists churches making professions of faith aren't parroting, before their baptism?

You need to put sincere faith at the top of your list of what you want in a church. I don't think the Catholic Church is Christian, not because they sprinkle infants or pray to Mary, but because I don't see the church as governed by people of sincere faith.

The church has dealt with heresies for centuries. Here is wiki list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_heresies


Your belief is similar to an old heresy called Donatism*.
===
From the heresy wiki:
Donatists were rigorists, holding that the church must be a church of saints, not sinners, and that sacraments administered by traditores were invalid. They also regarded martyrdom as the supreme Christian virtue and regarded those that actively sought martyrdom as saints.
===

Here is ST. Augustine debating with Donatists. Consider the Donatists better position, You are saying you left the church because they governed by people with no sincere faith, The Donatist are saying The Catholics left because they governed by people with no sincere faith.

Can you catch the difference?



If Jesus Christ shared the same attitude he would not have been Jewish. I think one of the points St. Augustine tried to make is through out the old testament God's chosen people are misbehaving.

Samuel's two sons for example held the highest govern authority and had no sincere faith. They were unjust and great sinners. This pushed the people towards fixing the problem themselves.....They wanted a King and God gave them Saul. This demand was a sin and Samuel knew it, Do you know why asking for a King was a sin?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

These Presbyterians drove me nuts today with Infant Baptism,, covenantinilism, baptism is really New testament circumcision...blah, blah,blah. Holy Cow....just how unbiblical and how convoluted can they get?

 

[Smyth]

The church has dealt with heresies for centuries. Here is wiki list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_heresies


Your belief is similar to an old heresy called Donatism*.

What? You're accusing me of heresy for desiring a church that shows sincere faith? You should look up the heresy of legalism.

 

[Reformed]

It is a baby dedication. Is that biblical?

It is not biblical in the sense that it is raised to the level of an ordinance of the Church. A baby dedication is really nothing more than a parental dedication; the parents dedicating themselves to raise their children in the Lord. It is a nice "feel good" ceremony and photo opportunity. I would not get too bent out of shape if a church has such ceremonies, but I certainly would not have one in any church I pastor.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It is not biblical in the sense that it is raised to the level of an ordinance of the Church. A baby dedication is really nothing more than a parental dedication; the parents dedicating themselves to raise their children in the Lord. It is a nice "feel good" ceremony and photo opportunity. I would not get too bent out of shape if a church has such ceremonies, but I certainly would not have one in any church I pastor.

Your being nice my friend.....but you also need to be direct.... IE that dedications are NOT Biblical & have zero place in Christs church! See I believe that Anne's church is in the process is absorbing a Presby church in Long Island & will eventually have to deal with their dogmas and some of these are not in keeping with True Christianity. I cannot myself join with a church that can & does infant baptize & then try to justify it as a New Testament Circumcision.

 

[utilyan]

What? You're accusing me of heresy for desiring a church that shows sincere faith? You should look up the heresy of legalism.

I said similar.

Brother I know deep in your heart God comes first.

Your intention is noble.

Legalism is of no concern with a person who does the command of God FOR FREE rather then weigh it like a gold digger who is always selfishly looking what is in it for them.

I'd do the command of God even if it would send me to hell.

Oh God commands this.........GEE will this give me salvation.....or 5 bucks?

Doing what God wills will never get you eternal life.

Doing what God wills IS eternal life.

 

[Reformed]

Your being nice my friend.....but you also need to be direct.... IE that dedications are NOT Biblical & have zero place in Christs church! See I believe that Anne's church is in the process is absorbing a Presby church in Long Island & will eventually have to deal with their dogmas and some of these are not in keeping with True Christianity. I cannot myself join with a church that can & does infant baptize & then try to justify it as a New Testament Circumcision.

Baby dedications are not biblical and I have not/will not preside over them. That said, many Baptist churches perform them. What I was trying to do was not encourage separation over that issue alone. If you attend a church that faithfully proclaims the Gospel, as baby dedication is the only thing going on that you disagree with, consider whether that rises to the level of cause for separation. Keep in mind that it's a lot easier to not join a church that you have doctrinal disagreements with than it is to leave a church for that reason. In the latter case your family may be plugged into the church and have relationships that may be damaged if you leave. Also, the church may be faithful in other areas. It's hard for some people to leave that.

On the other hand baby dedication is a harmful practice because it is Baptists trying to act like Presbyterians. Either practice infant baptism or don't. Don't try and straddle the fence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Baby dedications are not biblical and I have not/will not preside over them. That said, many Baptist churches perform them. What I was trying to do was not encourage separation over that issue alone. If you attend a church that faithfully proclaims the Gospel, as baby dedication is the only thing going on that you disagree with, consider whether that rises to the level of cause for separation. Keep in mind that it's a lot easier to not join a church that you have doctrinal disagreements with than it is to leave a church for that reason. In the latter case your family may be plugged into the church and have relationships that may be damaged if you leave. Also, the church may be faithful in other areas. It's hard for some people to leave that.

On the other hand baby dedication is a harmful practice because it is Baptists trying to act like Presbyterians. Either practice infant baptism or don't. Don't try and straddle the fence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Isn't that What Ann's church is trying to do,but in reverse....ie, originally Presbyterian...but because they are now integrating into a Baptist church that they want to infant baptism but ca all it a dedication? All that's gonna do is create a system where you have a bunch or non save people in the church masquerading as regenerate Christians....they might even grudgingly aggree to get dunked but there is no HS in it.

 

[Smyth]

Isn't that What Ann's church is trying to do,but in reverse....ie, originally Presbyterian...but because they are now integrating into a Baptist church that they want to infant baptism but ca all it a dedication? All that's gonna do is create a system where you have a bunch or non save people in the church masquerading as regenerate Christians....they might even grudgingly aggree to get dunked but there is no HS in it.

People who aren't "properly" baptized are unsaved? That sounds like the baptist legalism of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

People who aren't "properly" baptized are unsaved? That sounds like the baptist legalism of the Roman Catholic Church.

Get your ears checked....it ain't!. Do you know what baptism is? BTW.......think gettin wet saves ya?!?

 

[BobRyan]

While I disagree with lots of Presbyterian dogma, I do not see any true baptist churches in my neck of the woods so I am forced to conclude that to satisfy my need for a church that I will have to swallow my pride & start going to the local OPC church down the road from where I live. And I dread it...the horror of having to deal with paedo/ sacramental types frankly bothers me.

Seventh-day Adventists are similar to Seventh-day Baptists in a few ways.

1. 66 books of the Bible.
2. Believer's Baptism
3. Saved by grace through Fatih
4. Trinity
5. Premillennial visible, literal second coming of Christ in the future
6. Literal virgin birth, death, burial, resurrection and bodily ascension of Christ
7 Literal creation week - and 7th day Bible Sabbath (in fact the Seventh-day Baptists played a key role in getting Adventists to become Seventh-day Adventist through bible studies)
8. Sola scriptura testing of all doctrine and tradition


http://seventhdaybaptist.org/about/statement-of-belief/

We may differ on these areas

1. We are the 5th largest Christian denomination according to a 2015 statement by Christianity Today.
2. We are Arminian - believing in free will - (Don't know if the SDB has a position on this as group)
3. We believe the 1 Thess 4 statement about "those who have fallen asleep" as Paul says.
4. We believe in the continuation of 1Cor 12 spiritual gifts - but are neither charismatic or pentecostal

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Seventh-day Adventists are similar to Seventh-day Baptists in a few ways.

1. 66 books of the Bible.
2. Believer's Baptism
3. Saved by grace through Fatih
4. Trinity
5. Premillennial visible, literal second coming of Christ in the future
6. Literal virgin birth, death, burial, resurrection and bodily ascension of Christ
7 Literal creation week - and 7th day Bible Sabbath (in fact the Seventh-day Baptists played a key role in getting Adventists to become Seventh-day Adventist through bible studies)
8. Sola scriptura testing of all doctrine and tradition


http://seventhdaybaptist.org/about/statement-of-belief/

We may differ on these areas

1. We are the 5th largest Christian denomination according to a 2015 statement by Christianity Today.
2. We are Arminian - believing in free will - (Don't know if the SDB has a position on this as group)
3. We believe the 1 Thess 4 statement about "those who have fallen asleep" as Paul says.
4. We believe in the continuation of 1Cor 12 spiritual gifts - but are neither charismatic or pentecostal

I don't understand your post. what are you suggesting I do ?