Featured The "shibboleth" of the Biblical doctrine of Justification

Without at all disagreeing with you- justification is indeed by grace ALONE- your case will be stronger if you comment briefly on James 2:14-23.

 

I hate to burst your bubble, but your comments on James just put you in the camp you denounced in post #1

James had in mind the promise of reward to Abraham in Genesis 15:1 "Great is your reward"

to which he replied "what shall you GIVE me, seeing I have no son?"

Then God assured him that he would have a son coming from his own loins, and that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars. THAT is why his willingness to sacrifice Isaac was so commendable. He believed God about his descendants. The writer of Hebrews wrote that Abraham knew that if God let him go through with the sacrifice of Isaac, God would raise Isaac from the dead.

James absolutely did not have "justified before men" in view, because there weren't any men around to see it.

Abraham was justified in receiving the reward. You should read James 2 in light of Hebrews 11, where the likes of Moses endured because he was looking to tge reward.

James 2:12 says to speak and act as those who "will be" judged by the law of liberty

Then 2 verses later comes "what if a man says he has faith, but has no works. Will such a faith save him?"

Save him from what? What's coming at this future judgement that a brother might need to be saved from?

Remember that James follows this tidbit about works with "do not many aspire to be teachers, knowing WE shall receive a stricter judgement."

James included himself in this future, stricter judgement. What's there to be afraid of? What's there to be "saved" from?

 

I disagree. I think Biblicist has pretty much got it right.
More than thirty years separate God declaring Abraham righteous and Abraham offering up Isaac.
God justified Abraham (ie. declared him righteous) when he believed God; thirty years later, his works justified him: that is, they declared that he believed God (Hebrews 11:17-19).

God justifies the ungodly (Titus 3:3-7):
'Nothing in my hand I bring,
Simply to Thy cross I cling.'
But He doesn't leave them ungodly. 'I.......declared.......that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance' (Acts 26:19-20; cf. also Ephesians 2:10; Titus 3:8).

With reference to James 3:1, it means exactly what it says. Woe to those of us who preach if we do not preach the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ!

 

By the 3rd verse James through the Spirit says

James 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
This is reiterated elsewhere as well.
e.g.
James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

Those to whom he was writing had FAITH already.
These were post salvation believers to whom he was writing.

However their faith had not been perfected or matured in Jesus Christ as the kingdom of God was still in transition from Israel to the church(es). - In my Opinion.

They had failed even to the point of falling into severe sin. James 4:4.

Biblicist (again IMO - I don't want to put words in his mouth) is speaking of PRE-salvation works of ANY KIND which presumably lead to justification constitute "another gospel" and I personally agree.

My own testimony:
As a former Catholic struggling with GUILT when I discovered in the scripture that there was nothing required of me by way of "sacraments" that is when both my sins and my guilt disappeared in His blood in that moment of enlightenment.

Call it "easy-believism" if you want but the gift of faith in His work and blood freed me from my sin which my Catholic works could never do no matter how many "absolutions" I received from the hands of a man my conscience continued to throb in pain like my thumb smashed by my own hammer (until Jesus came).


HankD

 

I agree with that premise as well. But the additional requirement of works post-justification is out of bounds

Now, I don't mean to infer that good works aren't expected of a believer, for they are commanded. But any time one veers into an inevitability of good works, then they have departed from biblical truth.

Even Jesus said some receive the word eith joy, then immediately fall away. And some endure for only a little while. And they get caught up in the cares of this world. What the heck are they enduring in if it's not real faith?

Why would it be expected that someone with a spurious faith should endure in any kind of work?

Why would John write that many, even of the rulers believed in Jesus, but weren't confessing because they were afraid (Jn 12:42-43) ?

Simply, because there is nothing in scripture which hints at any inevitability of anything after faith, except that God will not fail.

If we are faithless, He remains faithful; for He cannot deny Himself

 

I would agree with your premise as well, however anyone who is not demonstrating the indwelling Spirit emanating agape love has certainly missed the mark of expectation.

One of , if not the greatest purpose of our redemption according to the scripture is as follows

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

While works might not be inevitable they are an expectation of high priority (IMO).

Of course there is one thing which is greater than any work - agape love.

NKJV 1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.


HankD

 

Excellent OP.

 

Justification is based on faith, not works. This view is not called "easy believism." And the faith in view is the person's faith which God has credited as righteousness. The "gift of faith" (meaning instilled by irresistible grace) is no where in view.

We are saved by grace through faith. Our faith provides our access to saving grace. Romans 5:2.

 

Thanks Van, I have long been very critical of the phrase "easy believism" because belief in Jesus Christ is not "easy" it is impossible for the flesh, however for the children of God it is as easy as breathing pure clean air with a set of healthy lungs provided by the Holy Spirit.

Personally I use the phrase "phony believism" in which the tares in the church learn to "talk the talk" and even (to an extent) to "walk the walk".

It is also my belief that God is even able to save tares (surprised?! - we shouldn't be).

This has been my hope and prayer that they hear the voice of the father in heaven rather than the words of the prince of darkness, the father of lies.

HankD

 

Yes, HankD, even scripture supports the idea that our efforts to reach the lost should be both within the church and outside the church. I cannot count the times someone has "come to the Lord" as a child, and then "recommitted" themselves as an adult.

The LORD takes us where we are, warts and all. We do not need to get wet (water baptism) to be saved. Or talk in another language. Or stop smoking. Or, or,...

But we do need to be discipled and taught all Christ commanded.

 

LOL, "your faith" appears in scripture more than a 10 times, but "instilled" faith cannot be found. It is a fiction.

To repeat once again, we are saved by grace through faith. Therefore our faith precedes saving grace. It is a lock. When you enter a room through a door, you go through the door before you enter the room. Our faith provides our access to saving grace. Romans 5:2

Pay no attention to those who deny scripture after scripture after scripture, such as Ephesians 2:8, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 5:2 and so forth.

 

I agree, but I also agree with Biblicist in his propositions as to how we came to Christ in the first place - not duplicitous thought or compromise or a paradox because I believe that somehow it is both the sovereignty of God and the will of man combined. The "somehow" could very well be that God provides a predisposition to the "elect" coming into the world.

Alternatively: (a question for all to contemplate but not necessarily answer):

Is it possible (underline possible) for God to provide every fallen man with the ability to believe?
NOT IF HE ACTUALLY DOES THAT - just is it possible?


HankD

 

Yet another material false statement from Biblicist. He would misrepresent a stop sign.

Discipline someone does not put them in Christ, only God does that.

 

There is a good argument for "your faith" being provided faith - not that this is my position (I am a mugwump) but here it is:

I buy my children shoes (for instance). My children call them "my shoes", I tell them - "put on your shoes". Yet they are actually daddy's shoes which he purchased for them, they did nothing to get the shoes except 1) they are my children 2) they have the need.

HankD

 

Hi Hank, another question for contemplation, why does scripture say "your faith" rather than implanted faith? Because it is our faith, which God credits as righteousness. There would be no need to credit implanted faith as righteousness. Think about it!

Why did Jesus speak in parables if no one could believe? Why did God harden the hearts of the Jews in Romans 11, it they were unable to believe. How could the men of Matthew 23:13 be entering the kingdom of Heaven unless they had the ability to believe in God?

And again no scripture says God compelled our faith, it is a fiction.