Featured The "shibboleth" of the Biblical doctrine of Justification

Hi Van,

Personally I can't align myself with either C or A theology. That is not a cop-out.

I lean more towards the C position however questions and scripture like yours keep me from a full commitment to C theology.
Other questions and scripture keep me from a commitment to A philosophy.

Just being honest.

HankD

 

Folks, fiction is fiction. It is our faith that provides our access to saving grace. Romans 5:2
Was a counter verse cited to overturn this biblical truth? Nope.

it seems the nameless doctrine advocates cannot say through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

 

Another C argument to contemplate - not exactly from scripture so - take it for what is worth:

When I was a young man a friend of mine from church and I were fishing buddies.
In the late summer we would go fishing to a certain place on the Mystic River in MA.
We fished for giant carp (a choice dish in Europe) upwards to 20-30 lbs.

We would go to places where there were mulberry trees.
The Mystic River had tons of "trash fish" so we couldn't use worms or any other bait live or artificial.
We used mulberries because ONLY the carp would bite.

A poor but effective analogy.
No one forces the "elect" but they are the only ones who will "take the bait" of the gospel of forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

HankD

 

Since the church has tares, it seems those not yet chosen also like mulberries. Jesus spoke in parables to preclude understanding (taking the bait). God harden hearts to preclude understanding, taking the bait.
The truth is before us. Jesus said "your faith has saved you." He did not say "the faith I implanted saved you. No need to believe what scripture does not say, over and against what scripture plainly teaches.

 

I believe the argument about where faith originates, who has it and how it gets focused, etc... is actually based on a complete misnomer from both sides.

Faith is portrayed as a substantive element (like a dollar) which is "given"

Ok, did God give everyone a magical dollar and the we decide to put it into the "eternal life" slot machine and pull the handle?

Or did God give only some the will to go stand in line and then get the dollar right when we get to the slot machine?

Faith isn't like a spiritual water gun that ee point at Christ and shoot. Faith is simply being convinced - that He is the Christ, who is God in the flesh, who died in our stead, and rose again, and is coming with judgment.

God enlightens us and we believe. Period. That's "saving" faith. It is a gift, not from us. But it's not like a package we open

 

1) You are no mind reader. You have no idea what I know. Therefore your first statement is not only false, it is obviously false.

2) Our faith in Christ is not "works" nor is it instilled, implanted, or hatched. We put our trust in the grace of God, as revealed in the gospel of Christ.

3) Because it is "our" faith, it means it not faith instilled, implanted or hatched. It means what it says, our faith. No verse says implanted faith has saved us. The whole idea is fiction.

4) Next we get misrepresentation, did I say justification by works? Nope, never. So why attribute it to me? Because you misrepresent others to hide your mistaken views.

5) Finally we get the saved by grace is "inclusive of faith." Twaddle to the max. Scripture teaches we are saved by grace through faith. Repeat, through faith. Stop rewriting the bible to pour your man-made twaddle into it.

Folks, pay no attention to those who seek to multi late scripture. We are saved by grace through faith. Thus our faith precedes saving grace. Romans 5:2 is crystal.

Romans 4:16 says faith is in accordance with grace, not inclusive of grace. Ephesians 2:9 says salvation is not of works. Therefore non-germane to the topic, just more obfuscation to create smoke and smears.

 

To what does Romans 5:2 refer? Our faith in Christ providing access to the grace in which we stand. Therefore access to saving grace. Pay no attention to those who mutilate scripture after scripture. Every verse that shows the nameless doctrine is bogus is claimed to not say what it says. They say our faith does not provide access. We are not saved by grace through faith. God did not choose us for salvation through faith in the truth. Christ did not lay down His life as a ransom for all. On and on it goes.

 

Van don't forget something called the "kenosis" (this is the theological name for Jesus status as He walked the earth here in His flesh)

The meaning - what part or parts of His deity did He lay aside? He did not forfeit them but He laid them aside.
The analogy - He is/was a 5 star general in Heaven, He came to earth as a basic recruit - not even 1 stripe.
He laid it all aside for us because it is/was the will of the triune God - together they sent Him forth, He in voluntary agreement that this was the best way. To become a human being born of a woman under the law.
So actually in His voluntary submission to the father He did not feel that He should say the to her (if it is indeed the truth) "the faith I implanted saved you".

But in this case I tend to agree with you. See, I told you I was a mugwump.

HankD

 

Honesty? Sidestepping? Maybe I haven't been clear enough for you, but I've certainly tried.

Scripture clearly correlates "saving faith" with a knowledge of the truth.

It's not an intellectual knowledge which someone ponders a set of pros and cons, makes any kind of decision, uses any kind of will, or anything of the sort.

God doesn't give every man a measure of faith, whereby the man exercises his will and decides to believe in Christ and becomes regenerated.

Neither does God superimpose a regenerated will onto a man, whereby this new godly man chooses to believe the gospel.

Both of those are unbiblical because they both have a man choosing to believe or choosing to commit or choosing whatever.

2Cor 4:6 says...
For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ

Faith is absolutely a gift, but not in a substantive manner, in a passive manner.

Van's warped version may as well say I choose to cast a shadow of myself by making the sun shine on me

Your warped version may as well say God makes the sun shine on me first, then I choose to cast the shadow

Scripture says that God makes the sun shine on me and the shadow is inevitable.

God enlightens our mind with a knowledge of the truth. That's saving faith. Not involving the will of man, either pre- or post-regeneration.

 

Here is another contemplation.

Salvation by faith through grace is a mystery for us humans.

Timothy 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

We don't what happened in that counsel meeting in heaven before the foundation of the world.
We weren't invited.

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

We don't know what parameters were used in who was predestined to what.
True, many think they know and are quite willing to tell us e.g. Calvin, Arminius, Zwingli, Kierkegaard etc, etc,
They are all dead. Personally none of their writings satisfy my soul.

But here is what does/did satisfy my soul (over 50 years ago) it was God's theology (it was Isaiah 1:18 then the other passages came later):

Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Acts 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,

HankD