time of the end

K, I have decided long ago after an unpleasant experience on the BB to not enter into a prolonged debate about these things and it looks as if that mindset is always brewing on the BB.

I am no exception and being who I am I would become offensive again as I did years ago here on the BB

My own position on the second coming is focused on Acts 1:9-12 which I have already said.
I don't want to bruise any feelings - primarily because although my own position which has its focus on Acts 1:9-12 it is not chiseled in concrete. I fully admit to the problems of the futurist point of view.

Anyone who wants to delve further into this subject concerning my own personal opinion and preferences concerning Last Things (which opinions and preferences have been modified over the years) can scan "HankD" and review them.

Concerning the 101 items. For many centuries Christian authors would make an apologetic to many of the 101 items quoting that portion of "My lord delayeth his coming".

I value your friendship and don't want to engage in a debate with you.

Finally I know your position from past threads, posts, etc and you just might be right. It's possible, you make some very good points.

HankD

 

Hank, I've much respect for you and value your friendship. Perhaps you've misconstrued the acute disdain I have for Christian Zionism as an affront to you. I'll try to be more careful in the future.

 

HankD, you are one of the good guys. I've always enjoyed our back and forth over the years. You come across as very honest man seeking nothing but truth. Kyredneck and I are going to make you a preterist (of some sort) before we're done.

 

I'm not a Zionist K.
Israel is our ally and as such I do support them in my political view just as I would France or Canada.
However they (Israel) are not without infraction of global law and common decency and should be held accountable whenever they cross the line.

Some of their retaliations and aggressiveness against the Palestinians crosses that line IMO.

HankD

 

Well I have admitted that I attribute some of the prophetic statements in Matthew 24/Luke 21/Mark 13 concerning AD70 are partial fulfillments of His second Coming.

HankD

 

So maybe they should be punished.....like taking the 10 Billion we give them away.

 

No, but maybe we shouldn't sweep it under the printing presses.

HankD

 

Lol who do you think owns the MM printing presses?

 

Ya but even the liberal media doesn't report it as they should.

HankD

 

Well, ya might succeed with Hank, but not me. I believe preterism is phony as a Ford Corvette, and was invented by the RCC to try to keep the popes from being labeled as the antichrist.

History and reality make lies outta all pret assertions.

 

I never said I am a full preterist.

I do believe that some of Matthew 24/Mark 13/Luke 21 end time prophecies can be applied to His Second Coming (done in advance of His visible bodily return) e.g. the destruction of the temple and the sack of Jerusalem which ended biblical Judaism.

I am still a futurist and as I said my scriptural anchor for the bodily visible return of Jesus Christ is Acts 1:9-12.

Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

- this same Jesus (not Titus), which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner (bodily) as ye have seen (visibly) him go into heaven -

I include verse 12 because we are told that He will return bodily and visibly from whence He left - the Mount of Olives:

Zechariah 14
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Luke 21 prophetic statements of Jesus:

Luke 21:17-25 IMO this section of Scripture has already been fulfilled "the Days of Vengeance" (Many dispensationalists believe this section is yet in the future. I do not).
Luke 21:25-27 yet to be fulfilled.

Luke 21:17-25 (Fulfilled)
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Luke 21:25-27 (Not yet fulfilled)
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

The ("and" - kai) of verse 25 is the connective to "until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" therefore "the times of the Gentiles" has not come to completion.

HankD

 

[QU22

Hum, who owns the liberal media?!?

OTE="HankD, post: 2252319, member: 262"]Ya but even the liberal media doesn't report it as they should.

HankD[/QUOTE]

 

[/QUOTE]
Probably.

HankD

 

Lots of talk, not much on proof. History is on the side of preterists.

 

Right. The point I have made against preterism is that every single prophecy of the first Coming was fulfilled literally (Bethlehem, Egypt, etc., etc.), therefore every single prophecy of the Second Coming must be fulfilled literally.

 

Thanks John!

HankD

 

So Christians are no longer hated for Christ's name's sake? Tell that to Christians living in Iraq, Somalia, North Korea etc.

 

Yes, they are still hated. I was referring to the sack of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple which ended biblical Judaism. No temple, no levitical priesthood no Judaism.

HankD