The gospel according to Paul

[utilyan]

John 1

12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

The implication here is the right to become children of God elect is given on conditions. If we were to reword this for Calvinism to work it would say this:

But as many were the children of God, to them he gave the right to receive him.

This backward phrasing is nothing new, we hear it from Calvinist all the time.

I can say the original scripture is true and the backwards version is false its backwards even!

A Calvinist will call the backwards version true.

 

[Yeshua1]

John 1

12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

The implication here is the right to become children of God elect is given on conditions. If we were to reword this for Calvinism to work it would say this:

But as many were the children of God, to them he gave the right to receive him.

This backward phrasing is nothing new, we hear it from Calvinist all the time.

I can say the original scripture is true and the backwards version is false its backwards even!

A Calvinist will call the backwards version true.

Election and salvation are due to the will of God Himself, as per this very verse, correct?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

John 1

12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

The implication here is the right to become children of God elect is given on conditions. If we were to reword this for Calvinism to work it would say this:

But as many were the children of God, to them he gave the right to receive him.

This backward phrasing is nothing new, we hear it from Calvinist all the time.

I can say the original scripture is true and the backwards version is false its backwards even!

A Calvinist will call the backwards version true.

What the verse tells us that those who believe are those who are born anew (John 3:3 etc., etc.), and that new birth does not come from one's lineage ('blood'), nor from our own fallen will ('the flesh'), nor from any third party-- it is not in the rites or incantations of the priest, the ministrations of the social worker, nor the urgings of the evangelist ('the will of man'), it comes from God and from Him alone.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Jesus stated that upin HIM salvation holds, not us!

“Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Did Abraham believe? Yes. Was he made to believe? No! What would have happened if stopped believing, would God have still credited His righteousness to an unbelieving Abraham? No! Therefore faith is not a one time response. We must continue to believe....

 

[AndThisGospel]

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I'm new here. Why do you close down threads?

 

[AndThisGospel]

Calvin and Paul and Jesus agreed on the Elect!

You wish....

 

[AndThisGospel]

can alo mean th if is assumed to be true!

No, it means exactly what it states. No ridiculous contortions needed...."If" is conditional. Christ will present your "new creation" perfect in Himself IF you keep your faith in Him.

Heb 11:6 "without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."

Faith is placing your confidence and trust, daily, to the God of heaven.

Heb 3:12 "See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has an evil, unbelieving heart that forsakes the living God. 13 But exhort one another each day, as long as it is called “Today,” that none of you may become hardened by sin’s deception. 14 For we have become partners with Christ, if in fact we hold our initial confidence firm until the end. "

The writer of Hebrews (who I believe was Paul) is warning the Hebrew believers not to give up their faith in Christ.

If you can't give up your faith, then why did Paul warn believers not to? Apparently Paul understood that a believer could give up Christ.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

“Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Did Abraham believe? Yes. Was he made to believe? No! What would have happened if stopped believing, would God have still credited His righteousness to an unbelieving Abraham? No!

There was no possibility whatsoever of Abraham ceasing to believe. "Your fathers, including Terah, the father of Abraham and the father of Nahor, dwelt on the other side of the River in old times, and served other gods. Then I took your father Abraham from the other side of the River, led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his descendants and gave him Isaac' (Joshua 24:2-3). All this is totally monergistic. God preserves His people.

Therefore faith is not a one time response. We must continue to believe....

Quite right! That is why God gives believers a new heart and a new spirit, writes His commandments on their hearts and causes them to keep them (Jeremiah 31:33-34; Ezekiel 36:26-27).

 

[AndThisGospel]

... that none of you may become hardened by sin’s deception. .

The NASB states it better: "the deceitfulness of sin"

How is sin a deceiver?

First, I'm not speaking of transgression. I'm talking about "indwelling sin" - our fallen, human nature. How can our nature deceive us?

Before I touch on this let me say that our natures get the best of us many times. If not then we aren't sinning and coming short of the glory of God. So our natures are alive.

The gospel states that we are incapable of producing genuine works of righteousness. All we can produce is self-righteousness, that is, righteousness produced by our natures, which if filthy rags in God's eyes.

That is why Jesus said, "Without me you can do nothing." He didn't mean we couldn't do math or drive a car - He meant that without His Spirit we cannot produce genuine righteousness.

The problem with our fallen natures is they try to convince our hearts that we really aren't that bad. In fact we are basically good. I'm sure you've heard that statement, that is, that people are basically good.

Well, that's "the deceitfulness of sin".

Let me explain using 1 John 1:8

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

To say we are as perfect, as God is perfect, is a deception. IF a believer maintains this...if he persists that he is righteous and that He doesn't need Christ, he is deceived by his own sinful nature.

We are warned not to give up Christ. "Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires". In other words they put no confidence in the flesh.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Quite right! That is why God gives believers a new heart and a new spirit, writes His commandments on their hearts and causes them to keep them (Jeremiah 31:33-34; Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Yes, but we still have our natures to contend with....Therefore we must allow, through faith, for Christ to defeat our doubt and unbelief. Without faith in Him we stand no chance against our fallen, human natures. Therefore we must keep the faith until the end.

 

[utilyan]

What the verse tells us that those who believe are those who are born anew (John 3:3 etc., etc.), and that new birth does not come from one's lineage ('blood'), nor from our own fallen will ('the flesh'), nor from any third party-- it is not in the rites or incantations of the priest, the ministrations of the social worker, nor the urgings of the evangelist ('the will of man'), it comes from God and from Him alone.

Every single good thing at all comes from God. We can even say every single person who enters heaven is elect. It clearly states those who receive him he gives the right to call his children.

Not BACKWARDS:

Those who are his children he gives the right to receive him.


The backwards version is backwards, its not order God declared.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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