Deadly free-will choices from the Garden until right now

[MennoSota]

While what you say is true in general, the context doesn't state that it's God's work. It states that God saved you by grace. Grace is God's gift, not faith. Faith is receiving God's gift.



"God chose you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 14 He called you to this salvation through our gospel..."

He called these believers to salvation through the gospel, as He does all men. He has chosen all men to be saved, but not all will receive Him.

If all men are chosen, then no one goes to hell. Except, nowhere in the Bible does God say that all are chosen.
You are making up a gospel not taught in the Bible. You continually twist the facts and state something other than what the text actually says. You have to do that in order to make your false gospel work for you.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Romans 9:8-24
[8]This means that Abraham’s physical descendants are not necessarily children of God. Only the children of the promise are considered to be Abraham’s children.
[9]For God had promised, “I will return about this time next year, and Sarah will have a son.”
[10]This son was our ancestor Isaac. When he married Rebekah, she gave birth to twins.
[11]But before they were born, before they had done anything good or bad, she received a message from God. (This message shows that God chooses people according to his own purposes;
[12]he calls people, but not according to their good or bad works.) She was told, “Your older son will serve your younger son.”
[13]In the words of the Scriptures, “I loved Jacob, but I rejected Esau.”
[14]Are we saying, then, that God was unfair? Of course not!
[15]For God said to Moses, “I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose.”
[16]So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it.
[17]For the Scriptures say that God told Pharaoh, “I have appointed you for the very purpose of displaying my power in you and to spread my fame throughout the earth.”
[18]So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen.
[19]Well then, you might say, “Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven’t they simply done what he makes them do?”
[20]No, don’t say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, “Why have you made me like this?”
[21]When a potter makes jars out of clay, doesn’t he have a right to use the same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw garbage into?
[22]In the same way, even though God has the right to show his anger and his power, he is very patient with those on whom his anger falls, who are destined for destruction.
[23]He does this to make the riches of his glory shine even brighter on those to whom he shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory.
[24]And we are among those whom he selected, both from the Jews and from the Gentiles.

The New Living Translation used translators from a variety of denominations. The method combined an attempt to translate the original texts simply and literally with a dynamic equivalence synergy approach used to convey the thoughts behind the text where a literal translation may have been difficult to understand or even misleading to modern readers. It has been suggested that this "thought-for-thought" methodology, while making the translation easier to understand, is less accurate than a literal (formal equivalence) method, and thus the New Living Translation may not be suitable for those wishing to undertake detailed study of the Bible.[4]

 

[MennoSota]

Bingo

Who is the author writing to? Is he addressing all of the world or Christians?
Hint...the all is not universal.

For example, when you are addressing your friends you may say, "All of you are invited to the party." Does that mean that the entire world is invited or just your friends?

Hint...the all isn't universal.

Drop mic, walk off stage...

 

[AndThisGospel]

If all men are chosen, then no one goes to hell.

No...you just don't get it! God has saved all men from "the curse of the law" in Christ, but God will not force that salvation obtain for all men on the unbeliever.

 

[MennoSota]

The New Living Translation used translators from a variety of denominations. The method combined an attempt to translate the original texts simply and literally with a dynamic equivalence synergy approach used to convey the thoughts behind the text where a literal translation may have been difficult to understand or even misleading to modern readers. It has been suggested that this "thought-for-thought" methodology, while making the translation easier to understand, is less accurate than a literal (formal equivalence) method, and thus the New Living Translation may not be suitable for those wishing to undertake detailed study of the Bible.[4]

LOL, you hide when confronted with God's word. Every translation supports my position because it's God's word.
You are making excuses for your false views.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Who is the author writing to? Is he addressing all of the world or Christians?..

He is writing to believers who have received Christ....

 

[MennoSota]

No...you just don't get it! God has saved all men from "the curse of the law" in Christ, but God will not force that salvation obtain for all men on the unbeliever.

You teach salvation by works, not by grace. You teach a false gospel.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Taken out of context your theology seems right. The problem is Calvin, and by default you, have lifted this out of context in order to build your doctrine of "the elect".

Jump back to verse 8:

"It is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring"

"Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham" Gal 3:7...18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise."

Now turn two verses back to Romans 9:16

"It (salvation) does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy."

Isn't this what Paul said in Eph 2:4,5?

"God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved."

So then, when Paul states, "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden"( Rom 9:18) the immediate context suggests that God has one way of saving mankind and that is through a promise made effective "in Christ".

God has mercy on those who receive Christ through faith. God does not have to have mercy on those who insist on meriting salvation. God, however, is persistent and He will send His Spirit to work on the hearts and minds of those caught up in salvation by works. By persisting they become more hardened until at last they are fully hardened.

 

[utilyan]

Who is the author writing to? Is he addressing all of the world or Christians?
Hint...the all is not universal.

For example, when you are addressing your friends you may say, "All of you are invited to the party." Does that mean that the entire world is invited or just your friends?

Hint...the all isn't universal.

Drop mic, walk off stage...

God commands everyone in the world not to sin. Ergo wants all in heaven.

Hint: its universal.

 

[Samuels]

It helps to know you are a Roman Catholic.
I would point you to St Augustine who understood God's election and thoroughly dismantled Pelagius "free will" argument so much that the Roman church declared Pelagius a heretic.

Please, let's end this business right now of saying what the RCC has declared or not declared.
This insults anyone who understands the historical record,
which reveals exactly who and what the RCC has always been.
And it ain't in the least bit pretty ... extremely ugly, in fact.
Withholding the Scriptures from the masses.
Killing everyone who won't submit to their doctrines.
THE most incredible deception in the history of mankind ...
that the RCC is Christian in any way (except the Trinity is part of their doctrine).

 

[Samuels]

Better get this 2-cents-worth in before the thread gets moth-balled.

Some men are enabled to believe (initially) …
but they can choose (later) to NOT believe with real saving belief-faith.
One proof of this: disobedience proves their actual unbelief (Hebrews 3:17-19),
i.e. disobedience to the Ten Commandments, and/or to Jesus’ commandments.

 

[MennoSota]

Please, let's end this business right now of saying what the RCC has declared or not declared.
This insults anyone who understands the historical record,
which reveals exactly who and what the RCC has always been.
And it ain't in the least bit pretty ... extremely ugly, in fact.
Withholding the Scriptures from the masses.
Killing everyone who won't submit to their doctrines.
THE most incredible deception in the history of mankind ...
that the RCC is Christian in any way (except the Trinity is part of their doctrine).

You are changing the issue, Samuels. As the OP, you wanted to discuss free-will vs election.
Augustine, a member and prominent leader in the Roman church did a great job in presenting the sovereignty of God in salvation. Pelagian, a free-will advocate, was rightfully declared a heretic for his non biblical views on salvation.
Certainly the Roman church has gone down non biblical pathways that cannot be promoted by those influenced by the Reformation, but on the issue of God's sovereign election, Augustine was right on and in alignment with God's word. It was Pelagian who was far astray and promoting works salvation.

 

[MennoSota]

Better get this 2-cents-worth in before the thread gets moth-balled.

Some men are enabled to believe (initially) …
but they can choose (later) to NOT believe with real saving belief-faith.
One proof of this: disobedience proves their actual unbelief (Hebrews 3:17-19),
i.e. disobedience to the Ten Commandments, and/or to Jesus’ commandments.

I find Hebrews to be an excellent book regarding election. When you take the time to study it you realize that the author is never presenting a loss of salvation teaching and never presents a human choice of salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

I am, but you are being disingenuous. Accepting Christ is the same as receiving Him as your Savior and redeemer by faith.

"God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood – to be received by faith." Rom 3:25

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name" John 1:12

The ones who did receive him were His elect in Christ....
They confirmed that God salvation was at work and completed on heir behalf...

 

[Yeshua1]

If all men are chosen, then no one goes to hell. Except, nowhere in the Bible does God say that all are chosen.
You are making up a gospel not taught in the Bible. You continually twist the facts and state something other than what the text actually says. You have to do that in order to make your false gospel work for you.

He holds to a barthian type view that all are reconciled back to God thru death of Christ, and only those who freely reject Jesus loe tha salvation!

 

[Yeshua1]

Better get this 2-cents-worth in before the thread gets moth-balled.

Some men are enabled to believe (initially) …
but they can choose (later) to NOT believe with real saving belief-faith.
One proof of this: disobedience proves their actual unbelief (Hebrews 3:17-19),
i.e. disobedience to the Ten Commandments, and/or to Jesus’ commandments.

ALL those are savd by Frace of God stay saved by power of God?

 

[MennoSota]

He holds to a barthian type view that all are reconciled back to God thru death of Christ, and only those who freely reject Jesus loe tha salvation!

Unfortunately for him, he cannot support it biblically.

 

[AndThisGospel]

The ones who did receive him were His elect in Christ....

That's not what it states. Honesty is a christian virture. If you are elected perhaps you shouln't be practicing dishonesty.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Unfortunately for him, he cannot support it biblically.

keep repeating that lie until you convince all who are reading here

 

[AndThisGospel]

ALL those are savd by Frace of God stay saved by power of God?

Meaning you have no free will. Condense