God is Good not Evil

[AndThisGospel]

God's wrath is not passive at all.

God's wrath fell on Jesus for the sins of his adopted children. God's wrath falls on every sinner who remains reprobate and casts them into hell.

You mistake God's timing for passivity. That's your mistake.

Note what Jesus said in Luke 22:53

"When I was with you daily in the temple, you did not try to seize Me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness.”

Before that no one could touch Christ, why? "No one laid a hand on Him, because His hour had not yet come." John 7:30

His arrest was attributed "the power of darkness". Satan, through evil men, had Christ arrested, convicted and crucified.

Where was God the Father? Answer: He had abandoned Christ. That's the curse, God abandonment, with no hope of resurrection because the source of the resurrection, God the Father, had departed.

That's why Jesus cried out, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"

So God wasn't doing these terrible things to His Son. What God did was abandon Christ. This withdrawal of God's Divinity started in Gethsemane. That's why the mobs could touch Christ, because God was no longer protecting Him from the evil men around Him.

 

[MennoSota]

Note what Jesus said in Luke 22:53

"When I was with you daily in the temple, you did not try to seize Me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness.”

Before that no one could touch Christ, why? "No one laid a hand on Him, because His hour had not yet come." John 7:30

His arrest was attributed "the power of darkness". Satan, through evil men, had Christ arrested, convicted and crucified.

Where was God the Father? Answer: He had abandoned Christ. That's the curse, God abandonment, with no hope of resurrection because the source of the resurrection, God the Father, had departed.

That's why Jesus cried out, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"

So God wasn't doing these terrible things to His Son. What God did was abandon Christ. This withdrawal of God's Divinity started in Gethsemane. That's why the mobs could touch Christ, because God was no longer protecting Him from the evil men around Him.

Wait...you're saying that God the Son abandoned his physical body at Gethsemane and on through death on the cross?

Your theology is strange. No Baptist I have ever met would say what you have said. I am beginning to think you are not a Baptist, but some other denomination.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Wait...you're saying that God the Son abandoned his physical body at Gethsemane.....

Why can't you read? Why can't you think outside the box of Calvinism? I'll tell you why, because you have allowed yourself to become brainwashed.

God the Father abandoned Christ as the Son of Man upon the cross. Thus Christ tasted the 2nd death for all men....

 

[AndThisGospel]

When Christ became a man in the incarnation He had to give up not His divinity, but His divine prerogatives, in other words, the independent use of His divinity. Even His God-consciousness had to be given up. Jesus discovered He was God only by revelation. He was not God-conscious as a baby. He had to grow up in knowledge. He had to grow up in everything because He had given up the independent use of His divinity and was made in all things like unto us (Heb. 2:17).

Therefore, He was totally God-dependent all through His earthly ministry. John 5:30 says, “I can do nothing of myself.” John 6:57 says, “I live by the Father.” See also John 8:28 and John 14:10. All these texts state very clearly that Christ was totally God-dependent. Then read Rom 6:4; Acts 2:24, 32; Eph. 1:20. All of these texts clearly tell us that it was the Father who raised Christ from the dead. Keep these two things in mind: Christ was God-dependent, and He was dependent on the Father for the resurrection.

Do you know what the Father did on the cross? Christ cried out: “Father, Father why have you forsaken me?” What He meant is not “Why are you leaving me for three days?” but, “Why have You abandoned Me?” Do you know what that meant to Christ? It meant that the hope of the resurrection went with that abandonment. When the Father forsook Him in terms of Christ’s feeling, then the hope of the resurrection went with it. Jesus was now “treading the winepress alone.” He could no longer look on the Father with hope and assurance as far as His feelings were concerned. He felt the agony of God-abandonment, exactly what the wicked will feel when mercy no longer pleads with the guilty race.

 

[AndThisGospel]

As He hung on the cross experiencing God’s curse for our sins, i.e., God abandonment, Jesus had to make a choice. He could not save Himself and the world at the same time. And He did make the supreme choice. He chose to die eternally that you and I may live in His place. That is what transformed the disciples. They were so shocked! They had not understood such love before as this. It is this concept of agape that turned the world upsidedown, that God not only came down for thirty-three years, but Jesus their Savior was willing to say good-bye to life forever that they may live in His place. “But God demonstrated His love that while we were still sinners Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).

In other words, the supreme sacrifice is that Jesus was willing to accept our curse and give us His life in exchange. It was not a question of saving Himself and the world. He could not do that. He had to make a choice between the world and Himself. Do you know what Christ was saying on the cross? I hope you will never forget this; He was saying that He loves us more than Himself. That is God’s agape

 

[MennoSota]

Why can't you read? Why can't you think outside the box of Calvinism? I'll tell you why, because you have allowed yourself to become brainwashed.

God the Father abandoned Christ as the Son of Man upon the cross. Thus Christ tasted the 2nd death for all men....

Did God abandon David in the same way in Psalm 22?

Or...could it be that your entire interpretation is wrong?

The scriptures, from Genesis to Revelation, speak of God's good and gracious choices. Look at all the times God chooses to do something apart from anything mankind wants. Did Abraham choose God? Did Jacob choose to be called Israel? Did Moses choose God on the mountain? I can go on and on showing you God's goodness in choosing one while rejecting another.

God the Father chose to place his wrath upon God the Son as God the Son atoned for God's adopted children. The forsaking was because Yeshua held our sin and took God's just wrath for our sin. Yeshua's resurrection proves his deity and his payment was finished.

But, I know you well enough that you will reject such amazing grace and love from God purely because you feel compelled to tell us how you chose God rather than God choosing you.

 

[MennoSota]

You say that God's grace is "irresistible", yet the Bible states some will be lost. Since the foundation you have constructed is faulty, then you have to generate another lie that states because some will be lost God didn't actually redeem the human race "in Christ", but only the "elect" - a special group that God loves, while loathing all others. This heresy is called "limited atonement", but Paul would call it "another gospel".

Wow! You really miss the mark.

Irresistible grace points to the fact that God's choice cannot be resisted. No matter how much we run from God, God will draw us to himself. Just as Adam and Eve hid due to sin, they could not resist God's call to stand before him. Just as Adam and Eve stood before God, ashamed of their sin, so God chose to provide clothing to cover them. So it is that God calls, even though we run and hide. He draws us out and makes it impossible for us to resist his call.

Your big misunderstanding is that God loves a special group while loathing the rest. No, God loathes all sinners. He HATES the sin of the elect just as equally as he HATES the sin of those not chosen. "We are all like filthy rags." None are righteous, not even one. No, sir, God does not love us by our own merit. He hates everything about us because it is filthy with sin. But, He loves his Son and he sees his Sons payment for sin that not only pardons sinners, but adopts these sinners and places these sinners in Christ. God sees Christ when he looks my way. He sees that Christ took God the Father's wrath for my sin and God declares me right with him by Christ's propitiation for my sin. I am found in Christ. It is Christ and Christ alone, which allows me to be in the presence of the Almighty. Without Christ, I die by virtue of my great sin against the Sovereign King.

God loves His Son. He is very pleased with His Son. He hates me because of my rebellious sin. It is in Christ alone that I stand, no longer condemned (Romans 8:1 ).

That, dear sir, is amazing grace, which is given by determination of God and God alone.

I am humbled to the core by the deep deep love of God in granting me mercy and grace, undeserved. Who can do anything but bow before the King and praise Him for eternity because He has chosen not to condemn me as he rightfully could have done. It is a praise of joy that I pray everyone might have, yet I know that is not my right to grant. It is for God to sovereignly choose as He sees fit.

 

[utilyan]

Wow! You really miss the mark.

Irresistible grace points to the fact that God's choice cannot be resisted. No matter how much we run from God, God will draw us to himself. Just as Adam and Eve hid due to sin, they could not resist God's call to stand before him. Just as Adam and Eve stood before God, ashamed of their sin, so God chose to provide clothing to cover them. So it is that God calls, even though we run and hide. He draws us out and makes it impossible for us to resist his call.

Your big misunderstanding is that God loves a special group while loathing the rest. No, God loathes all sinners. He HATES the sin of the elect just as equally as he HATES the sin of those not chosen. "We are all like filthy rags." None are righteous, not even one. No, sir, God does not love us by our own merit. He hates everything about us because it is filthy with sin. But, He loves his Son and he sees his Sons payment for sin that not only pardons sinners, but adopts these sinners and places these sinners in Christ. God sees Christ when he looks my way. He sees that Christ took God the Father's wrath for my sin and God declares me right with him by Christ's propitiation for my sin. I am found in Christ. It is Christ and Christ alone, which allows me to be in the presence of the Almighty. Without Christ, I die by virtue of my great sin against the Sovereign King.

God loves His Son. He is very pleased with His Son. He hates me because of my rebellious sin. It is in Christ alone that I stand, no longer condemned (Romans 8:1 ).

That, dear sir, is amazing grace, which is given by determination of God and God alone.

I am humbled to the core by the deep deep love of God in granting me mercy and grace, undeserved. Who can do anything but bow before the King and praise Him for eternity because He has chosen not to condemn me as he rightfully could have done. It is a praise of joy that I pray everyone might have, yet I know that is not my right to grant. It is for God to sovereignly choose as He sees fit.

"Irresistible grace points to the fact that God's choice cannot be resisted."

Did God make a choice and chose that his command was for everyone not to sin?


I don't believe God is an idiot.

God does not stick his hand up your shirt and work you like a puppet. If God just plays solitaire there is multiple disqualifications. God loves no one, because he has no one to love.

He convinced NNE to repent, because they don't even do the repenting. like sock puppet he has to do the repenting.


God is capable of IMPOSSIBLE and not limited to what you can perceive possible.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Wow! You really miss the mark.

Irresistible grace points to the fact that God's choice cannot be resisted. No matter how much we run from God, God will draw us to himself.

"And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”

"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." John 12:32​

Taking YOUR theology to it's natural conclusion: All men will be saved because God's "draw" cannot be resisted.

Conclusion: You are presenting universalism.


​

 

[AndThisGospel]

Wow! You really miss the mark.
...God sees Christ when he looks my way.....That, dear sir, is amazing grace, which is given by determination of God and God alone.I am humbled to the core by the deep deep love of God in granting me mercy and grace, undeserved.

Funny thing is He looked your way, but others? fagots for the fires of hell!...What a wonderful, unbiased, undiscriminating, god you have. No favoritism at all!

Now, for a reality check:

First, favoritism is incongruent with God’s character: “God does not show favoritism” (Romans 2:11). All are equal before Him. Ephesians 6:9 says, “There is no favoritism with him."

Second, the Bible calls favoritism sin: “If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself,’ you are doing right. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers” (James 2:8-9). Favoritism is a serious offense against God’s call to love one’s neighbor as oneself.

Favoritism and partiality are not from God, and Christians are called to love. As humans, we tend to form judgments based on selfish, personal criteria rather than seeing others as God sees them.

 

[utilyan]

"And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”

"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." John 12:32​

Taking YOUR theology to it's natural conclusion: All men will be saved because God's "draw" cannot be resisted.

Conclusion: You are presenting universalism.


​

You know that's another point, If God dictates absolutely all points, whether damning folks or not the system would be universalism. Namely because there isn't anyone there to damn or save.


Before the fall it was universalism, And God wanted to keep it that way. Desires known by command.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You say that God's grace is "irresistible", yet the Bible states some will be lost. Since the foundation you have constructed is faulty, then you have to generate another lie that states because some will be lost God didn't actually redeem the human race "in Christ", but only the "elect" - a special group that God loves, while loathing all others. This heresy is called "limited atonement", but Paul would call it "another gospel".

If you wish to have a discussion, will you please moderate your language and actually deal with my post? It is against the rules of this forum to accuse people of 'generating lies' and 'heresy.' I think you are better than that; please don't prove me wrong. I am always reluctant to report people's posts, but I have Utilyan on 'ignore' most of the time because discussing the things of God should be a pleasure, not a pain.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

First, favoritism is incongruent with God’s character: “God does not show favoritism” (Romans 2:11). All are equal before Him. Ephesians 6:9 says, “There is no favoritism with him."

Yet God says, "I will take you, one from a city, two from a family and bring you to Zion" (Jeremiah 3:14). The Holy Spirit also says that, 'not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble are called........etc.' (1 Corinthians 1:26-28). Even in 1 Corinthians 6:9, God is discriminating against unrighteous people.

How do we reconcile these various verses (because they must be reconciled or else God's word is false)? Well have a look at Galatians 3:28; Colossians 3:11; James 2:2-4, and Revelation 6:9 and you may get an idea of the way in which God does not show favouritism.

 

[MennoSota]

"Irresistible grace points to the fact that God's choice cannot be resisted."

Did God make a choice and chose that his command was for everyone not to sin?


I don't believe God is an idiot.

God does not stick his hand up your shirt and work you like a puppet. If God just plays solitaire there is multiple disqualifications. God loves no one, because he has no one to love.

He convinced NNE to repent, because they don't even do the repenting. like sock puppet he has to do the repenting.


God is capable of IMPOSSIBLE and not limited to what you can perceive possible.

You didn't even read my entire post, did you. You have created such a narrative of hate that you cannot accept God's grace. It's sad to read your hate.

 

[MennoSota]

"And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”

"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." John 12:32​

Taking YOUR theology to it's natural conclusion: All men will be saved because God's "draw" cannot be resisted.

Conclusion: You are presenting universalism.


​

Your universalism is noted.

I have pointed out to you on multiple occasions that the word "all" is not necessarily universal. I provided examples. Yet, you persist in your foolishness.

When you sing the hymn, "When we all get to Heaven" do you imagine the entire universe of humanity to be there? Or...is the word "all" confined to a certain group?

You are fighting so hard against the bit.

 

[MennoSota]

Funny thing is He looked your way, but others? fagots for the fires of hell!...What a wonderful, unbiased, undiscriminating, god you have. No favoritism at all!

Now, for a reality check:

First, favoritism is incongruent with God’s character: “God does not show favoritism” (Romans 2:11). All are equal before Him. Ephesians 6:9 says, “There is no favoritism with him."

Second, the Bible calls favoritism sin: “If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself,’ you are doing right. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers” (James 2:8-9). Favoritism is a serious offense against God’s call to love one’s neighbor as oneself.

Favoritism and partiality are not from God, and Christians are called to love. As humans, we tend to form judgments based on selfish, personal criteria rather than seeing others as God sees them.

Favoritism? That's what you concocted from my post? Your incredibly biased and prejudiced.

I used to work in a print shop. There were times when every rag in the shop was dirty and filthy. Not one clean rag could be found. I would have to dig into the dirty rag bin, grab a rag and clean it. Was I playing favorites when I chose? No. The rags were all filthy. I chose because that was my decision to make.

God chooses because that is his decision to make. God's word tells us that we are all like filthy rags.

I don't take your hate personally. Your hate is directed toward God and his sovereign authority over your life.

 

[MennoSota]

You know that's another point, If God dictates absolutely all points, whether damning folks or not the system would be universalism. Namely because there isn't anyone there to damn or save.


Before the fall it was universalism, And God wanted to keep it that way. Desires known by command.

You do not grasp the Sovereign Lordship of God.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Then, to be fair and unbiased, you need to examine other posters who are on your side of the argument. Why didn't you bring up the behavior of these individuals? Is it perhaps because you believe in a God who practices partiality? Perhaps...

 

[AndThisGospel]

You do not grasp the Sovereign Lordship of God.

Sure I do...but God doesn't force men to receive salvation. That's compulsion and partiality and that comes from Satan's camp, not God's.

 

[AndThisGospel]

You are fighting so hard against the bit.

No Sir, you are teaching universalism because you insist that when God's draws men to Himself that this grace is irresistible.

" And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”