Reformed Pastor Shares Emotional Hug with the Pope

[Bro. James]

Yes, and those holy men were Catholics (Universalists) every last one of them in belief (the 7 sacraments) and practice (our liturgical form of worship) - right down to the "kiss of peace" we still exchange at Mass today.

There was but one Christian Church that just about every Christian listened to, right up to the great schism between East and West and that is a fact that cannot be denied. The Baptist sect and it's belief's did not come about until sometime in the 17th century. (According the Baptist History and Heritage Society)

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...Only in the New Advent Encyclopedia. Some of us are in that "just about group."

Considering the depravity of all men in every generation, it seems highly unlikely God would put His Bride under the charge of a man or woman.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[utilyan]

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...Only in the New Advent Encyclopedia. Some of us are in that "just about group."

Considering the depravity of all men in every generation, it seems highly unlikely God would put His Bride under the charge of a man or woman.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Unlikely is God's signature style. You think ink and paper is more reliable then men.

When they warred the philistines they brought forth a Giant. God gives you a child for a weapon, but hey you prefer an army tank. Because your way of getting things done is greater then God right?

The church is GOD BREATHED.



The communion of Jesus Christ is another example. Jesus Christ chooses to deliver us a message. His choices? Email, a Giant, video, book, smoke signals, a painting, ect, ect.

So of ALL things possible what does Jesus choose to write scripture? What grammar?

He got bread wine and people. And he commanded them to deliver this message with the command DO THIS.

1 Corinthians 11

23For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread;


I'm so sorry Jesus' humble choice method did not meet your standard of ink and paper. God apologizes for not checking with YOUR BETTER sense of reliability.

You guys took the one THING Jesus wrote and tossed in the trash when it should have bee the TOP.

Its been dismissed, demoted, trashed, forgotten so low you actually have to CHECK the bible to VERIFY its correct.

When you should have been checking IT to verify the bible.


A bible is better then a church says you, But even the bible says the church is the pillar and ground of truth. And NO WHERES does the bible claim to be the final rule of authority.

You said MY WAY not God's way.

 

[Adonia]

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...Only in the New Advent Encyclopedia. Some of us are in that "just about group."

Considering the depravity of all men in every generation, it seems highly unlikely God would put His Bride under the charge of a man or woman.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

God had no choice but to entrust His Bride with mortal men subject to depravity, that is the nature of the human entity and all He had to work with. If not them, then who? The Church did not, and could not, continue on without humans doing the work along with the Holy Spirit as the guiding force.

 

[Bro. James]

Unlikely is God's signature style. You think ink and paper is more reliable then men.

When they warred the philistines they brought forth a Giant. God gives you a child for a weapon, but hey you prefer an army tank. Because your way of getting things done is greater then God right?

The church is GOD BREATHED.



The communion of Jesus Christ is another example. Jesus Christ chooses to deliver us a message. His choices? Email, a Giant, video, book, smoke signals, a painting, ect, ect.

So of ALL things possible what does Jesus choose to write scripture? What grammar?

He got bread wine and people. And he commanded them to deliver this message with the command DO THIS.

1 Corinthians 11

23For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread;


I'm so sorry Jesus' humble choice method did not meet your standard of ink and paper. God apologizes for not checking with YOUR BETTER sense of reliability.

You guys took the one THING Jesus wrote and tossed in the trash when it should have bee the TOP.

Its been dismissed, demoted, trashed, forgotten so low you actually have to CHECK the bible to VERIFY its correct.

When you should have been checking IT to verify the bible.


A bible is better then a church says you, But even the bible says the church is the pillar and ground of truth. And NO WHERES does the bible claim to be the final rule of authority.

You said MY WAY not God's way.

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Are you sure you have chosen wisely?

Have you been praying about this issue? May I pray for you? Actually I am--with or without your permission.

Have a blessed day.

Bro. James

 

[Bro. James]

God had no choice but to entrust His Bride with mortal men subject to depravity, that is the nature of the human entity and all He had to work with. If not them, then who? The Church did not, and could not, continue on without humans doing the work along with the Holy Spirit as the guiding force.

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Having to make a choice seems utterly foreign to Lord God Jehovah, the only true and living God.

God said it, that settles it. Whether we believe it or not is irrelevant.

In the beginning was The Word, not The Church.

Someone is using the wrong calendar as well as the wrong Bible. Check out origins of the English Bible--outside the New Advent Encyclopedia.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[utilyan]

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Are you sure you have chosen wisely?

Have you been praying about this issue? May I pray for you? Actually I am--with or without your permission.

Have a blessed day.

Bro. James

Absolutely, I would be honored if you prayed for me.

The thing I want you to notice is for hundreds of years there is no bible. The apostles did not crack open a King James bible and say ok we are going to start doing communion.

The on going command of Jesus is a real living event even now.


There is no written rule that says written rules are greater then just said rules or particular acts like communion.

There is nothing in scripture that says over here this is the final and only rule of authority..


When it comes from God the tool he provides ought to be trusted.

If your in a race, There are race cars, and cars with customized parts, rockets and stuff, looks pretty fast........and God just hands you a foot pedaling bicycle.

At what point should we say well.......your idea is not going to work here.

 

[Adonia]

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Having to make a choice seems utterly foreign to Lord God Jehovah, the only true and living God.

God said it, that settles it. Whether we believe it or not is irrelevant.

In the beginning was The Word, not The Church.

Someone is using the wrong calendar as well as the wrong Bible. Check out origins of the English Bible--outside the New Advent Encyclopedia.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Yes you are correct, in the beginning was The Word, and then after that came The Church, as the continuing teaching authority here on earth. You see, in order to get man to understand things, God uses what man knows and is familiar with, things like institutions and leaders of those institutions and that is exactly what He did regarding the spreading of the Christian faith. There is nothing wrong with these things, they were all part of God's plan.

As to the Bible, there was but one that was compiled by those leaders of the Early Church. They along with the Holy Spirit finally decided which books were to be considered the New Testament Canon. Even non-Catholic sources point to the Universalist (Catholic) ECF's as the following paragraph indicates from a website called Evidence For God: How the Bible came to us written by Wesley Ringer. "The earliest manuscripts we have of major portions of the New Testament are p 45, p 46, p66, and p 75, and they date from 175-250 A. D. The early church fathers (97-180 A.D.) bear witness to even earlier New Testament manuscripts by quoting from all but one of the New Testament books. They are also in the position to authenticate those books, written by the apostles or their close associates, from later books such as the gospel of Thomas that claimed to have been written by the apostles, but were not."

Your problem is that you have an incomplete Bible compilation, rejecting what the ECF's (who along with the Holy Spirit) determined what the Bible really ought to consist of.

 

[Bro. James]

Absolutely, I would be honored if you prayed for me.

The thing I want you to notice is for hundreds of years there is no bible. The apostles did not crack open a King James bible and say ok we are going to start doing communion.

The on going command of Jesus is a real living event even now.


There is no written rule that says written rules are greater then just said rules or particular acts like communion.

There is nothing in scripture that says over here this is the final and only rule of authority..


When it comes from God the tool he provides ought to be trusted.

If your in a race, There are race cars, and cars with customized parts, rockets and stuff, looks pretty fast........and God just hands you a foot pedaling bicycle.

At what point should we say well.......your idea is not going to work here.

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Have you considered the last chapter in the "Unveiling" aka: The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ"? God chose to write--the writing is preserved in thousands of copies-- He said what He meant, meant what He said. We will all be judged by The Book which God has preserved. It behooves us to know what He said.

Where will you be in 100 years?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Bro. James]

Yes you are correct, in the beginning was The Word, and then after that came The Church, as the continuing teaching authority here on earth. You see, in order to get man to understand things, God uses what man knows and is familiar with, things like institutions and leaders of those institutions and that is exactly what He did regarding the spreading of the Christian faith. There is nothing wrong with these things, they were all part of God's plan.

As to the Bible, there was but one that was compiled by those leaders of the Early Church. They along with the Holy Spirit finally decided which books were to be considered the New Testament Canon. Even non-Catholic sources point to the Universalist (Catholic) ECF's as the following paragraph indicates from a website called Evidence For God: How the Bible came to us written by Wesley Ringer. "The earliest manuscripts we have of major portions of the New Testament are p 45, p 46, p66, and p 75, and they date from 175-250 A. D. The early church fathers (97-180 A.D.) bear witness to even earlier New Testament manuscripts by quoting from all but one of the New Testament books. They are also in the position to authenticate those books, written by the apostles or their close associates, from later books such as the gospel of Thomas that claimed to have been written by the apostles, but were not."

Your problem is that you have an incomplete Bible compilation, rejecting what the ECF's (who along with the Holy Spirit) determined what the Bible really ought to consist of.

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What if some of these men who claim to speak for God are actually false prophets and anti- popes and such? How does one determine the verity of what they say?
The Book of Acts, Ch. 17 vs. 11--"The saints at Berea were more noble than the saints at Thessalonica... they searched the scripture daily to see if these things were so" This is referring to what Paul, The Apostle had been preaching. The proving ground for the utterings of all men is still The Word of God--It will abide forever.

"you shall know The Truth, The Truth shall make you free..."

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[utilyan]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you considered the last chapter in the "Unveiling" aka: The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ"? God chose to write--the writing is preserved in thousands of copies-- He said what He meant, meant what He said. We will all be judged by The Book which God has preserved. It behooves us to know what He said.

Where will you be in 100 years?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Where will you be right now?

Matthew 6

34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

 

[Bro. James]

Post Script to all those in the Universal Church headquartered in Rome: if the two choices of Church are Roman Catholic or Greek Orthodox, how do I decide. They both claim to be Orthodox. They both disagree about authority, papacy, etc. Can they both be right? Can they both be wrong?

What is the criteria for making such a decision?

Choose wisely--eternity is close at hand.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Where will you be right now?

Matthew 6

34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

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O.K. If our heart stops sometime today, where will we be on the morrow? The choices are: heaven, hell and some think limbo. For those in limbo: what is beyond limbo? Are you sure?

The scripture says we are all going to be judged by the Book. There is also a Book of Life--the names are already recorded--from before the foundation of the world. Beware the second death.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[utilyan]

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What if some of these men who claim to speak for God are actually false prophets and anti- popes and such? How does one determine the verity of what they say?
The Book of Acts, Ch. 17 vs. 11--"The saints at Berea were more noble than the saints at Thessalonica... they searched the scripture daily to see if these things were so" This is referring to what Paul, The Apostle had been preaching. The proving ground for the utterings of all men is still The Word of God--It will abide forever.

"you shall know The Truth, The Truth shall make you free..."

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Acts 17

11Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

It doesn't say they received the scripture to examining scripture.

The Word is spoken.


Later he even quotes and acknowledges pagan scripture to be true, at least what they got right.





"What if some of these men who claim to speak for God are actually false prophets and anti- popes and such? How does one determine the verity of what they say?"

Love is always the priority. Even the verity of scripture hangs on it.


1 john 4

1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

I've seen self-proclaim Christians squirm around this and overly hesitant to out right refusing to declare Jesus Christ is Lord.


1 john 4

6We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. 7Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.



1 Corinthians 13

1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. 4Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

1 timothy 1

5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.



Jesus Christ, The apostles, Nor the hearer's of our lord, practiced sola scriptura.

Jesus points to the Chair of Moses as a seat of authority concerning religious matters and tells everyone to do what they say.

THERE IS NO biblical evidence stating the chair of Moses had this authority they don't even mention a chair.


Matthew 23

1Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them.



So Is Jesus presenting a blasphemy against holy scripture? No. He is following HOLY TRADITION.

This is GOD ALMIGHTY telling you hey we better do and observe all the things the scribes and Pharisees tell us to do, why?, because they are in the chair of Moses.

 

[utilyan]

Post Script to all those in the Universal Church headquartered in Rome: if the two choices of Church are Roman Catholic or Greek Orthodox, how do I decide. They both claim to be Orthodox. They both disagree about authority, papacy, etc. Can they both be right? Can they both be wrong?

What is the criteria for making such a decision?

Choose wisely--eternity is close at hand.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

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O.K. If our heart stops sometime today, where will we be on the morrow? The choices are: heaven, hell and some think limbo. For those in limbo: what is beyond limbo? Are you sure?

The scripture says we are all going to be judged by the Book. There is also a Book of Life--the names are already recorded--from before the foundation of the world. Beware the second death.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Selah,

Bro. James

The first dilemma you have is the bible. You have no holy table of contents to tell you WHICH BOOK is valid scripture or not.

Find out really who put the bible together. King James for example was put together by Anglican priests. They decided what book is inspired by God what is not. They had to decide from HUNDREDS of works.



Your 2nd question where will we be if we die today.


I think the first error is to presume you will die. Jesus Christ can come today.


John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

I don't care if you see everyone in the whole world drop dead around you, you maintain a trust in God.


When God gives a command I don't weigh the command and ask.....will this get me saved? What is in it for me? I just do it because God commands so.


Now if I got a CHOICE between going to heaven and hell. I'm going to get people out of hell.


Matthew 16
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It speaks of the church assaulting the gates of hell. Most people read this thinking evil is scratching on their front door trying to get in.

 

[Walter]

The first dilemma you have is the bible. You have no holy table of contents to tell you WHICH BOOK is valid scripture or not.

Find out really who put the bible together. King James for example was put together by Anglican priests. They decided what book is inspired by God what is not. They had to decide from HUNDREDS of works.



Your 2nd question where will we be if we die today.


I think the first error is to presume you will die. Jesus Christ can come today.


John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

I don't care if you see everyone in the whole world drop dead around you, you maintain a trust in God.


When God gives a command I don't weigh the command and ask.....will this get me saved? What is in it for me? I just do it because God commands so.


Now if I got a CHOICE between going to heaven and hell. I'm going to get people out of hell.


Matthew 16
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It speaks of the church assaulting the gates of hell. Most people read this thinking evil is scratching on their front door trying to get in.

Well said! The history of the bible is clear. It is interesting that the version that some of these Baptists claim is the only correct translation is the KJV. The Anglican Church is indeed responsible for it and it included the so called 'apocrapha'. There were many books for the Catholic Church to consider. But , the list was compiled by the bishops of the Catholic Church. Initially, local canons were assembled by individual bishops. These canons were lists of books which could be read aloud in Churches at Mass. Despite the fact that these canons were independently assembled they bore a great deal of similarity to each other – because the Catholic bishops were all using the same criteria to determine which books should be included. They looked to see if the books were written by an apostle or someone who was reporting the words of an apostle. They checked to see how much the book was being used by other bishops and priests in their Masses, and also looked at how often the book was quoted by the Church Fathers in their writings. Only those books which “scored” favorably on all three of these criteria made it into their canons.

 

[Bro. James]

Our paradigms and jargon have no similarity whatsoever. Actually, the gates of hell have assailed The Church, the Bride, the Lamb's wife. She has survived, in spite of the apostasy and false doctrine. I was brainwashed by the holy see for my first 12 years on this planet. Jesus will rescue from the labyrinth of religious delusion.

The question is still valid: Where will we go if the next heartbeat is our last?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro.

 

[Bro. James]

Well said! The history of the bible is clear. It is interesting that the version that some of these Baptists claim is the only correct translation is the KJV. The Anglican Church is indeed responsible for it and it included the so called 'apocrapha'. There were many books for the Catholic Church to consider. But , the list was compiled by the bishops of the Catholic Church. Initially, local canons were assembled by individual bishops. These canons were lists of books which could be read aloud in Churches at Mass. Despite the fact that these canons were independently assembled they bore a great deal of similarity to each other – because the Catholic bishops were all using the same criteria to determine which books should be included. They looked to see if the books were written by an apostle or someone who was reporting the words of an apostle. They checked to see how much the book was being used by other bishops and priests in their Masses, and also looked at how often the book was quoted by the Church Fathers in their writings. Only those books which “scored” favorably on all three of these criteria made it into their canons.

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Well half said. You left out the part about there being two streams of scripture. One of them is seriously corrupted. Facts:
1. The original God breathed autographs have yet to be discovered.
2. There are several thousands of copies of copies available in various libraries.
3. Two streams of scripture have come out of two different schools.
4. English speaking translators who translated the manuscripts from the Greek and Hebrew to the common vernacular were persecuted and murdered. Why?

Satan does not want The Truth that makes men free available to the laity. When they get the Truth, they get converted and kick out the clerics--the wolves dressed like sheep.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Adonia]

Post Script to all those in the Universal Church headquartered in Rome: if the two choices of Church are Roman Catholic or Greek Orthodox, how do I decide. They both claim to be Orthodox. They both disagree about authority, papacy, etc. Can they both be right? Can they both be wrong?

What is the criteria for making such a decision?

Choose wisely--eternity is close at hand.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

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O.K. If our heart stops sometime today, where will we be on the morrow? The choices are: heaven, hell and some think limbo. For those in limbo: what is beyond limbo? Are you sure?

The scripture says we are all going to be judged by the Book. There is also a Book of Life--the names are already recorded--from before the foundation of the world. Beware the second death.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Selah,

Bro. James

You can choose either of the orthodox Christian faith traditions that you mentioned and you would be just fine. Both have a valid clergy because of Apostolic Succession and both continue to believe in the sacramental way of Christianity, all seven of them. That right there should tell you something, that even after the great schism between the two, our Eastern Orthodox brothers did not jettison the most basic teachings of the Christian faith.

As for what happens after we stop breathing, you are a bit mistaken with your listed choices. They are heaven, hell, and purgatory.

Limbo, which you mentioned, was an idea put forth at one time that that was where unbaptized babies who died in infancy would go. It is explained thusly by a International Theological Commission in 2007 which said in part: "This theory, elaborated by theologians beginning in the Middle Ages, never entered into the dogmatic definitions of the Magisterium, even if that same Magisterium did at times mention the theory in its ordinary teaching up until the Second Vatican Council. It remains therefore a possible theological hypothesis."

Purgatory which is a teaching of the Catholic Church is simply a purging process for those who while professing Christ as Savior, die without being in a state of grace. As this issue has been covered on these pages before, I will simply say that the Scriptural passage 1 Cor 3: 11-15 is the best evidence for it.

 

[Adonia]

Our paradigms and jargon have no similarity whatsoever. Actually, the gates of hell have assailed The Church, the Bride, the Lamb's wife. She has survived, in spite of the apostasy and false doctrine. I was brainwashed by the holy see for my first 12 years on this planet. Jesus will rescue from the labyrinth of religious delusion.

The question is still valid: Where will we go if the next heartbeat is our last?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro.

Yes, God's Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church survives to this day despite Satan's many attempts to destroy her. Amen to that brother!

 

[utilyan]

Our paradigms and jargon have no similarity whatsoever. Actually, the gates of hell have assailed The Church, the Bride, the Lamb's wife. She has survived, in spite of the apostasy and false doctrine. I was brainwashed by the holy see for my first 12 years on this planet. Jesus will rescue from the labyrinth of religious delusion.

The question is still valid: Where will we go if the next heartbeat is our last?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro.

I think you should make a study of ancient siege warfare. Gates are not attack siege weapons.

If it said the gates of heaven shall remain against the onslaught of hell's attack. that would make sense.

Read the passage again slowly. What it says is the gates of hell will not stand it is the church that is on the offensive.


What has happened is someone gave you a meaning and tried to force it into the verse rather then reading the verse for what it says:

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Gates don't wobble up and start tapping on your door. What he's saying is he is going to bust open the door to hell. Death will be no more.

 

[Bro. James]

I think you should make a study of ancient siege warfare. Gates are not attack siege weapons.

If it said the gates of heaven shall remain against the onslaught of hell's attack. that would make sense.

Read the passage again slowly. What it says is the gates of hell will not stand it is the church that is on the offensive.


What has happened is someone gave you a meaning and tried to force it into the verse rather then reading the verse for what it says:

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Gates don't wobble up and start tapping on your door. What he's saying is he is going to bust open the door to hell. Death will be no more.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you considered historical events like the Dark Ages, Unholy Roman Empire? Christians??? killing Christians. Heads rolled, literally, for many who refused to recognize the authority of Rome. Another interesting historical event: the concordat between Pius XII and Adolf Hitler. There has been a lot of cover up for sure; and it seems to be even in our time. There is something insidiously bizarre about the religious powers that be in the last 2,000 years.

Then there is Vatican II. There are some who say every pope since Vatican II is actually antipope. How does an antipope provide continuity for the bishopric of Peter?

One more point to ponder: Why did Benedict go emeritus? Failing health is not supposed to make any difference--popes are supposed to die in office.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James