Featured Partial preterism

Israel is not Judea. Israel is God's covenant people. The Temple's destruction was only relevant to Believers of the Old Covenant, which was fading away and later ceased in 70 AD. The Apostles had an obligation to prepare Jews for the end of the Temple. That includes Jewish communities far outside of Judea.

Jesus didn't tell the Apostles to stay in Judea. And, the Apostles in fact traveled far outside of Judea.

Claiming that Jesus "coming" means new instructions is not supported by any context. In Matthew 10, Jesus speaks of bringing the sword, not instructions. Indeed, "coming" is a figure of speech for judgment. And, God's judgement upon Jerusalem was very visible.

 

You may not be Dispy but you're just as carnal as one.

28......the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Jn 18

20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Lu 17

18 For ye are not come unto a mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
22 but ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable hosts of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 and to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaketh better than that of Abel. Heb 12

Just like a Dispy you're looking for something that can be seen with the eye and touched with the hand. Even Gill, who was a Futurist, was not so carnal; concerning Mt 26:

63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou art the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus said unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven. Mt 26

"..... "Sitting" there, denotes his having done his work; and his continuance in his exalted state, until all enemies are subdued under him: and when he says they should "see" him, his meaning is not, that they should see him at the right hand of God with their bodily eyes, as Stephen did; but that they should, or at least might, see and know by the effects, that he was set down at the right hand of God; as by the pouring forth of the holy Spirit upon his disciples, on the day of pentecost; by the wonderful spread of his Gospel, and the success of it, notwithstanding all the opposition made by them, and others; and particularly, by the vengeance he should take on their nation, city, and temple; and which may be more especially designed in the next clause;..."

You're also like a Dispy by carelessly making no bones about destroying the underlying continuity of scripture concerning His imminent return upon that generation. Dispys make chop suey of the scriptures in order to fabricate their heresy, you appear to do the same here.

 

Again, when did the Second Coming happen, when there was a bodily/physical resurrction?

 

His second coming MUST include the physical resurrection, when did that happen?

 

Being taken away frm those Jews of THAT time, not for all time, as He will indeed save all of national Israek at His Second Coming!

 

There are some who seem to hold to to there havingbeen the second coming without any resurrection!

 

Acts 1:11. 'Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.'

'This same Jesus.'
He left in a body that was 'flesh and bones' (Luke 24:39); He will return in that same body.
His disciples watched Him leave; disciples (and everyone else) will see Him return (Revelation 1:7).
Clouds received Him out of their sight; clouds will part to reveal Him..

If it's 'carnal' to believe the Bible, guilty as charged!
You can have your invisible appearance if you like, but I just don't see it (and nor did anybody else).

 

Pastor Russell and the JW agree with him on a spiriual return!

 

Dispy narrow minds cling to this 'SECOND [only] COMING'. it's another of those ever so precious holy grail sacred cows that confines you to this tunnel vision. The BIBLICAL 'second coming' was addressed as reassurance/comfort to those Hebrew Christians that were being sorely persecuted by the powers that be, from within their own original apostate religion:

28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation. Heb 9
37 For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10

It was a reassuring promise that they were to very, very soon be DELIVERED from their persecutors [Matthew 21:45], NOT thousands of years and still waiting. Pink:

"...."For yet a little while, and He that shall come will come, and will not tarry" (verse 37). The causal "For" denotes that the apostle was about to confirm what he had just said: he both adds a word to strengthen their "confidence" and "patience," and also points them to the near approach of the time when they should receive their "reward." The Greek is very expressive and emphatic. The apostle used a word which signifies "a little while," and then for further emphasis added a particle meaning "very," and this he still further intensified by repeating it; thus, literally rendered this clause reads, "For yet a very, very little while, and He that shall come will come."

NOT thousands of years and still waiting:

"..."For yet a little while, and He that shall come will come, and will not tarry." The reference here is to the person of the Lord Jesus, as is evident from Habakkuk 2:3, to which the apostle here alludes. Like so many prophecies, that word of Habakkuk’s was to receive a threefold fulfillment: a literal and initial one, a spiritual and continuous one, a final and complete one. The literal was the Divine incarnation, when the Son of God came here in flesh. The final will be His return in visible glory and power. The spiritual has reference to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 when that which most obstructed the manifestation of Christ’s kingdom on earth was destroyed—with the overthrow of the Temple and its worship, official Judaism came to an end. The Christians in Palestine were being constantly persecuted by the Jews, but their conquest by Titus and their consequent dispersion put an end to this. That event was less than ten years distant when Paul wrote: compare our remarks on "see the day approaching" (Heb. 10:25).

NOT thousands of years and still waiting.

That occurs at the FINAL COMING:

23 .... Christ`s, at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. 1 Cor 15

It's a hard pill for you Dispies to swallow that at His final coming, at the resurrection, He has reigned already, and the kingdom has been already.

You're carnal. Just as carnal as those Jews of that generation of His day, looking for a kingdom that can be seen with the mortal eye and touched by the human hand.

 

"In like manner". As in His 'second coming' will be as His departure? Witnessed/experienced NOT by all mankind but to those only that He intended to see it?

In no way, shape, fashion, or form does this puny interpretation of your's negate the huge volume of scripture concerning His imminent return upon 'that evil and adulterous generation' that murdered Him and which fought against and persecuted His church.

 

Lol. I gave up on trying to make the horse drink a long while back. I've very much a 'take or leave it' tude now.

 

I have never held premil nor Dispensationalism theology, and have discussed eschatology for 60 years.

20 years ago I preached through Revelation from the amillennial position. Now I disagree after further study.

Jesus and his Apostles never suggest a restored kingdom for Israel in the promised land.

The promises to the Patriarchs were that in the Seed (Christ) all nations (goyim) would be blessed. That promise is repeated by the prophets and explained by the Apostles.

Revelation was addressed to its readers, companions in tribulation. The time was at hand.

We can see the Old Covenant promises and prophecies fulfilled in Christ and the New Covenant. Not in a godless nation.

That's the basics. More to follow.

 

When did the Second Coming happen, when tgere were physical resurrections of the saints?

 

Nothing happened in AD 70 that fulfilled end time scriptures!

 

God stated that he would deal again with the jews and Israel after the time ofhe Gentiles were fulfilled, that there will be One to come to exault Himself as God, and that Jesus woul stop Him at His second coming, so still to come!

 

Are you dense? You comprehended none of that post?

 

Sounds like a pretierist position!

 

The end of the age was not AD 70, there was no second coming, as evidence by a physical resurrection! If one denies that the second coming is yet to come, or a physical/bodily resurrection at that time, heresy!

 

The 'end times/last days' referred to in the Song of Moses some 1200 years B.C. is precisely about 'that generation' that suffered the horrors of civil war and the rebellion against the Roman Empire at the same time.

"No other slaughter/genocide in history, including the massacres at Merv and Nanking, matches that which occurred at Jerusalem A.D. 70. The Jews virtually self destructed, it was suicide, the infighting/civil war/self destruction that broke out among 'that generation' killed as many or more as the Roman army did. They literally became demon possessed mad men that turned on each other. From that aspect alone it was indeed "great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be".

43 But the unclean spirit, when he is gone out of the man, passeth through waterless places, seeking rest, and findeth it not.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man becometh worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this evil generation. Mt 12

....That particular generation of Christ's day was a peculiar generation in that it had been foretold of through prophecy such as the Song of Moses [Dt 31:16 - Dt 32], which also is quoted from several times in the NT. Christ prophesied many times concerning that particular evil generation of his day:

33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?
34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Mt 23

Christ is still referring to that particular generation in the Olivet Discourse.

This is one of my biggest beefs with Dispensationalism, it destroys the underlying continuity of the scriptures concerning that very wicked generation. They're called serpents and offspring of vipers by Christ and John the Baptist and specifically singled out by Moses some 1400 years earlier where he plainly states “they are not His children”:

21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they frame this day, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
22 So Moses wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. Dt 31
5 They have dealt corruptly with him, they are not his children, it is their blemish; They are a perverse and crooked generation.
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: For they are a very perverse generation, Children in whom is no faithfulness.
21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; They have provoked me to anger with their vanities: And I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. Dt 32

8 Then certain of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, Teacher, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet:
40 for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall stand up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, a greater than Jonah is here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43 But the unclean spirit, when he is gone out of the man, passeth through waterless places, seeking rest, and findeth it not.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man becometh worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this evil generation. Mt 12

1 And the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and trying him asked him to show them a sign from heaven.
2 But he answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the heaven is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to-day: for the heaven is red and lowering. Ye know how to discern the face of the heaven; but ye cannot discern the signs of the times.
4 An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of Jonah. And he left them, and departed. Mt 16

24 for as the lightning, when it lighteneth out of the one part under the heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things and be rejected of this generation. Lu 17

22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the marketplaces, who call unto their fellows
17 and say, We piped unto you, and ye did not dance; we wailed, and ye did not mourn.
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a demon.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold, a gluttonous man and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! And wisdom is justified by her works. Mt 11

40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

And Josephus, himself a Jew and an eye witness to all that transpired, certainly had nothing good to say of 'that generation':

“It is therefore impossible to go distinctly over every instance of these men's iniquity. I shall therefore speak my mind here at once briefly: - That neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world.....” Book 5, ch 10, sec. 5

“.. I suppose, that had the Romans made any longer delay in coming against these villains, that the city would either have been swallowed up by the ground opening upon them, or been overflowed by water, or else been destroyed by such thunder as the country of Sodom (20) perished by, for it had brought forth a generation of men much more atheistical than were those that suffered such punishments; for by their madness it was that all the people came to be destroyed....” Book 5, ch. 13, sec. 6

“....and I cannot but think that it was because God had doomed this city to destruction, as a polluted city, and was resolved to purge his sanctuary by fire, that he cut off these their great defenders and well-wishers, while those that a little before had worn the sacred garments, and had presided over the public worship; and had been esteemed venerable by those that dwelt on the whole habitable earth when they came into our city, were cast out naked, and seen to be the food of dogs and wild beasts. And I cannot but imagine that virtue itself groaned at these men's case, and lamented that she was here so terribly conquered by wickedness.....” Book 4, ch. 5, sec. 2"
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