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No limited-atonement here:

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AndThisGospel

Member
Yeshua1 said:
Jesus provided actual salvation for some, not potential for all!
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[Personal attack edited] Christ legally and actually saved "all men" from under law.... The problem is not all will receive this complete salvation. [Personal attack edited]
 
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Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AndThisGospel said:
No Sir, all men are given a measure of faith...Christ has saved all men from the curse of the law by His doing & dying. Those reject the gospel will be lost.
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so a guy like me who did my own thing, rejected religion, church, bible everything ...by your reconing I'm going to hell. See but then there is Grace.....do you believe in Grace?

What it did is pulled me back, gave me a new mind, new eyes to see and finally a conscience that grew & grew. I was made a new man. I no longer wanted to behave like the devils son....I recognized who my Father was, recognized I was selected long before the foundation of the universe & I was saved. Had I had to rely on myself, I would be dead in my sins.
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
AndThisGospel said:
1 Timothy 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants ALL men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for ALL men...
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No predetermined election here: God our Savior, who ransomed "all men", desires that all men receive this reconciliation.

Christ saved all men by His gospel, now He wants all men to be saved by accepting Him by faith. Apparently He doesn't force or compel after all! Hmmm....

[Attack edited]
 
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Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AndThisGospel said:
No Sir, all men are given a measure of faith...Christ has saved all men from the curse of the law by His doing & dying. Those reject the gospel will be lost.
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Friend if anyone is lost they can never rightly be said to be saved in the first place. What were they saved from if they wind up to be lost
it makes no sense whatsoever
 
MennoSota

MennoSota

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Earth Wind and Fire said:
so a guy like me who did my own thing, rejected religion, church, bible everything ...by your reconing I'm going to hell. See but then there is Grace.....do you believe in Grace?

What it did is pulled me back, gave me a new mind, new eyes to see and finally a conscience that grew & grew. I was made a new man. I no longer wanted to behave like the devils son....I recognized who my Father was, recognized I was selected long before the foundation of the universe & I was saved. Had I had to rely on myself, I would be dead in my sins.
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AndThisGospel argues that God made everyone with perfect eyesight, but some rejected their sight and gouged out their eyes because they like being blind. It's a very odd and biblically unsupported belief, but his stubborn heart won't give up preaching that belief. Best thing to do is put him on ignore.
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
Iconoclast said:
... if anyone is lost they can never rightly be said to be saved in the first place.
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Utter nonsense. Your logic, as is your Biblical understanding, is lacking.

Turn to Gal 3:13 "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us...."

Christ took "the curse of the law" upon Himself. His death was our death (see Rom 6:6/7:4)

Now turn to Gal 4:4 "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons..."

Christ came so that He could legally deliver the fallen, Adamic race from condemnation to justification of life. See Roman 5:18.

Before you were saved you stood condemned under the law of God. When you accepted Christ you went from under law to under grace and mercy.

However, you are saved from under the law as long as your faith remains in Christ. As long as your faith remains Christ will represent you perfect in Himself, but if you fall away Christ can no longer represent you perfect in Himself. At that point your must stand before God's law without an intercessor. That means you go back under the very law He legally delivered you from.

[Demeaning language edited]
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
AndThisGospel said:
,,, you are saved from under the law as long as your faith remains in Christ. As long as your faith remains Christ will represent you perfect in Himself, but if you fall away Christ can no longer represent you perfect in Himself. At that point your must stand before God's law without an intercessor. That means you go back under the very law He legally delivered you from.

[Demeaning language edited]
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Evidence:

Gal 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us (believers) free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you (the believer) that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

4 You (believers) who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

The believer, who through the deceitfulness of sin, tries to justify himself before God's law has separated himself from Christ. He has fallen from grace and gone back under law.
 
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Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AndThisGospel said:
Utter nonsense. Your logic, as is your Biblical understanding, is lacking.

Turn to Gal 3:13 "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us...."

Christ took "the curse of the law" upon Himself. His death was our death (see Rom 6:6/7:4)

Now turn to Gal 4:4 "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons..."

Christ came so that He could legally deliver the fallen, Adamic race from condemnation to justification of life. See Roman 5:18.

Before you were saved you stood condemned under the law of God. When you accepted Christ you went from under law to under grace and mercy.

However, you are saved from under the law as long as your faith remains in Christ. As long as your faith remains Christ will represent you perfect in Himself, but if you fall away Christ can no longer represent you perfect in Himself. At that point your must stand before God's law without an intercessor. That means you go back under the very law He legally delivered you from.

[Demeaning language edited]
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I see one of the problems you are experiencing here in this post.
You are taking verses that are speaking to believers and trying to suggest the unsaved are covered by those same verses.
No.....it does not work that way friend.
If God allows it, the pieces of the puzzle will become clear to you as this foggy works understanding burns off....
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
Iconoclast said:
You are taking verses that are speaking to believers and trying to suggest the unsaved are covered by those same verses.
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The whole NT is written to believers....Yet, within those verses, we find the gospel. The gospel is not about believers. IT's about what Christ did to legally remove the Adamic race from under the curse.
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
AndThisGospel said:
Evidence:

Gal 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us (believers) free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you (the believer) that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

4 You (believers) who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

The believer, who through the deceitfulness of sin, tries to justify himself before God's law has separated himself from Christ. He has fallen from grace and gone back under law.
Click to expand...

Yes?
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
AndThisGospel said:
Evidence:

Gal 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us (believers) free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you (the believer) that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

4 You (believers) who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

The believer, who through the deceitfulness of sin, tries to justify himself before God's law has separated himself from Christ. He has fallen from grace and gone back under law.
Click to expand...

No answers, huh?
 
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AndThisGospel

Member
AndThisGospel said:
Evidence:

Gal 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us (believers) free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you (the believer) that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

4 You (believers) who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

The believer, who through the deceitfulness of sin, tries to justify himself before God's law has separated himself from Christ. He has fallen from grace and gone back under law.
Click to expand...

The above tells me that believers who begin to drift and teach another gospel can become alienated from Christ and come back under "the curse of the law." In other words they go from "under grace" to "under the curse"...or from being saved to being unsaved.
 
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